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Making your own cables? #1732947 04/12/07 03:37 AM
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DdubBdrum Offline OP
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Hey guys, I was upset yesterday when I spent close to 70 dollars on two speaker cables. I wanted ones that would last me, so I got good ones with a warranty, but I'm not about to go out and spend that much again any time soon.

With this declaration, I found myself needing two more, and I NEED an alternative to emptying my wallet for a good cable or two.

I have quality soldering skills and I was wondering what you guys would recommend as far as mogami cabling and ends for good quality speaker cables..

any thoughts?

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: DdubBdrum] #1734094 04/13/07 04:45 PM
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"any thoughts?"

Yeah. Make sure to check out the Jun '07 issue of EQ when it hits the stands. The Tech Bench column is devoted wholly to DIY cable contruction.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: Matt Harper] #1734978 04/15/07 07:37 AM
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DdubBdrum Offline OP
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Oh! Awesome! Now June can't come soon enough for more than one reason!

thanks!

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: DdubBdrum] #1735060 04/15/07 01:51 PM
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miroslav Offline
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Originally Posted By: DdubBdrum


I have quality soldering skills...


Then why are bothering with ready-made? ;\)

Get yourself a reel/spool of cable (depending on which type and how much you need)...and assorted connectors...
...and go for it.

There are several good quality bulk cable manufacturers...and as far as connectors...I'm a big Neutrik fan, but Switchcraft is good also.

Sometimes, if you only need a couple of cables...it's better/easier to just buy ready-made, rather than get a whole reel/spool of bulk, just to make two.
But if you will be needing lots of cable in the future...then get bulk.
I've got miles and miles of cable throughout my studio, which I wired myself, rolling my own as needed. I have a few spools of different types on hand and boxes and boxes od assorted connectors (I can probably wire anbother small studio! \:D ).

Not sure who stiffed you $70 for two speaker cables (are they real long?)...but you probably could have found them for much less than that on online...especially on eBay.
But often, people are in a hurry...so they go to the local music store where they really rap you on cable prices. (There's a BIG markup on cables).


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1735257 04/15/07 09:01 PM
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Let me add that the quality of cable is important. For speaker, Monster is fine. Mogami and Belden are good for line cable. Avoid HOSA and other cheap brands at all costs. The copper oxidizes and you will lose clarity in signal.


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: J.J. Blair] #1735426 04/16/07 05:44 AM
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DdubBdrum Offline OP
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Yeah, that's a good question. I wish I had thought of making my own sooner! I'm not sure if I'm going to do a ton of cables yet, but I figured that I should replace my iffy quality mic cables now anyways, so I may as well buy a ton of cable.

I went to a DIY cable forum and found that Canare cable is good, so I think i'll use either it, Mogami, or belden. As for connectors, I'll probably stick with Neutrik since they're pretty fairly priced and good quality.

Have you heard anything about Monster connectors (specifically 1/4") being a hair larger than others? A guitar center employee said that when you insert them into the Jack, it expands the jack just slightly, causing a bad connection with other brands of connectors since they're a bit too small for the enlarged jack? the guy in the pro audio section of guitar center told me this and i was surprised that monster would do something like that.

anyone know if he was telling the truth or BSing me? I was a bit skeptical, but bought livewire anyways, so its cool. not to mention that my ready made cable buying days are over.


thanks for the input guys!

Last edited by DdubBdrum; 04/16/07 05:48 AM.
Re: Making your own cables? [Re: DdubBdrum] #1735692 04/16/07 06:19 PM
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I have actually heard this about the Monster connectors, and have had problems fitting them inside some jacks. But I can't see the size causing a problem for other cables being used. That seems silly. Besides, you can always bend the connectors back to whatever shape you need.


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: J.J. Blair] #1736084 04/17/07 06:43 AM
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DdubBdrum Offline OP
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Oh, well that's interesting to hear. I don't see why they have such an urge to be different in such a wierd and meaningless way.


p.s. Any recommended places to buy bulk cable? I'm redoing 10 mic cables and 2 speaker cables...

thanks!

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: DdubBdrum] #1736376 04/17/07 06:57 PM
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miroslav Offline
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Off the top of my head....Mouser...and Markertek...google them, you should turn up their websites.


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1737473 04/19/07 04:50 PM
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are these HOSA cables like the same crappy quality as beringer?

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1737477 04/19/07 04:51 PM
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HOSA and Behringer: Two crappy lines that sound crappy together!


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1737505 04/19/07 05:30 PM
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Yeah bummer. I bought all top quality gear, but all my cables where given to me by someone. So now it looks like I should ditch these 1/4 HOSA cables and make some of my own out of Mogani wire I geuss.

Sigh more money down the drain lol. Well I already spent 6 grand this month on equipment... I geuss whats another 200 of wires.

Well I geuss its better then blowing it on some chick... unless shes really fing hot haha.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1737520 04/19/07 05:55 PM
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Oh hey guys I know 0 about cables besides what type of connections I want on them. But considering I wanna replace these 15 or so cables with good ones, it looks like I should make them myself instead of buy separately.

So my main question for you guys is what kinda wires to I need? Like when I called that mouser company they needed to know if I need shielded, unshield, the gauge, how many conducters, and a whole bunch of other junk I had no idea about.

I need to make a ton of 1/4 cables and a few XLR, and its all conecting my DIGI 001 my keyboar, my MPC, and my speakers/sub together. If you need more info on my equipment feel free to ask.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1737700 04/19/07 09:40 PM
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You are going to need 2-conductor shielded for the XLR, and you may as well get it for the 1/4", because you'll be going balanced TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) on most of those 1/4" connections.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: Griffinator] #1737743 04/19/07 10:34 PM
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so whats a decent spool of 100 feet of wire cost of that type griff? should i get gold plated connectors, or is that not needed?

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1738604 04/21/07 09:25 AM
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Gold plated connectors are better in the long run, but many pro studios don't have them and they are fine. If it's a cable that just stays connected, I'd say no. But if it's something you plug and unplug a lot - try the gold. They don't corrode/oxidize as much...

Last edited by BrianK; 04/21/07 09:26 AM.

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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: BrianK] #1738649 04/21/07 01:16 PM
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Wouldn't the "static" connectors be more prone to oxidation...since the act of plugging/unplugging acts as a cleaning process...?

That's what I always understood to be the case...though of course...in both cases oxidation can creep in.

I give all my new connectors an occasional light coating of Caig Pure Gold...which is supposed to ward off oxidation over time.
But they are old connectors that already have some issues...then they need to be cleaned first.


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1738771 04/21/07 06:29 PM
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hey, quick noob question:

If I buy Canare star quad speaker cable for my speaker cables, and canare star quad mic cable for my mics, what do I do with the fourth connector?

I'll be making all balanced cables even if all my gear isn't balanced, just incase it ever is. As far as a balanced speaker cable, I'm going to want TRS connectors, correct? If this is correct, after I solder to the tip, ring, and shaft, there is still one conductor left over, so what do I do with it? Just cut it off and leave it? or connect it to the ground also?

thanks guys!

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: DdubBdrum] #1738796 04/21/07 07:49 PM
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With the star quad stuff...for mic cables...you use two wires together for the + (Pin 2) and two wires together for the - (Pin 3)...the bare wire is your ground (Pin 1).


And unless there's something new...I've never heard of balanced speaker wire.
Speaker wire is just two wires...one + Hot and one - Cold.
You can use every day lamp cords for speaker wire.
You DO NOT NEED shielded wire for speaker wire.
Of course...having a heavy duty jacked might be a good thing if you plan on constantly connecting/disconnecting the speakers...otherwise...just get a nice heavy gauge, multi-strand wire (at least 16 gauge) but 14 and even 12 won't hurt for long runs.

BUT…that said…
…when I refer to speaker wire…I am talking about the wire that runs from the amp outputs to the speaker’s inputs.

If you are talking about line level cables going from your mixer/DAW output to self-powered monitors (those cables are not techincally refered to as "speaker wires")…than yes…if they take a balanced line…go with the TRS or XLR…and Pin 1 is Ground, Pin 2 is + Hot, Pin 3 is - Cold on the XLR and on the TRS, Sleeve is Ground, Ring is – Cold and Tip is + Hot.
And for that...take two wires together to the HOT and two wires together to the COld...and the bare is your Ground.


Last edited by miroslav; 04/21/07 07:51 PM.

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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1738826 04/21/07 10:47 PM
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oh ok great! that clarifies a lot and sorry for the confusion with the terminology.

these 'speaker cables' are going from my mixer to my headphone amp. (i'm not sure if it accepts balanced cables but I think it does). Then from there a pair go to my KRK RP8 powered monitors, which I know can utilize balanced cables.

what is the proper term for them if not speaker cables? line level cables?

One more question... when you say 'the bare wire' does that mean that there is an uninsulated wire inside the cable as well? When I look at the illustration they have on markertek.com, I don't see any such wire in the drawing. I guess they could have just left it out for simplicity, but is this correct? Here's a link to the stuff in case you didn't have it already:

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=L%2D4E6S&off=1&sort=prod

thanks a lot miroslav!

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: DdubBdrum] #1738913 04/22/07 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: DdubBdrum
these 'speaker cables' are going from my mixer to my headphone amp....
...Then from there a pair go to my KRK RP8 powered monitors, which I know can utilize balanced cables.


What do you mean "from there a pair go to my KRK RP8"...?
From where...?
You must mean from the mixer...right?


Quote:
what is the proper term for them if not speaker cables? line level cables?


Well..."speaker cables" has always meant the cables the go from an amp to the speakers...and that is just basic, 2-conductor wire...like any electric, lamp cord...no shield.
Then there's "mic cables" (balanced)..."guitar cables" (unbalanced)..."instrument cables" (unbalanced)...
...and then after that...the rest are just referred to as "cables"...and you specify which (balanced, unbalanced). \:\)

Quote:
One more question... when you say 'the bare wire' does that mean that there is an un-insulated wire inside the cable as well?


There is either a bare wire that is in contact with the braided shield or the aluminum foil shield...that is your ground wire.
Or sometimes if it's a braided shield...there is no bare wire, and you have to twist some of the braided shield and solder it to your ground point on the connector (a bit of a PITA, but workable...it's much easier when there is a wire).


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1738940 04/22/07 07:42 AM
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Quote:
What do you mean "from there a pair go to my KRK RP8"...?
From where...?
You must mean from the mixer...right?


what I meant by this was the pair go from the mixer to the headphone amp and "from [the headphone amp], a pair of cables go to my KRK RP8 monitors."

does that make sense? there are inputs and outputs on the headphone amp so i run the monitors out of the "monitor outs" on the headphone amp.

two pairs of cables (1) and (2):

mixer outs -> h.phone amp -> monitors
[|||]====(1)====[ooo]===(2)===[o] [o]

just to clarify

Quote:
sometimes if it's a braided shield...there is no bare wire, and you have to twist some of the braided shield and solder it to your ground point on the connector


perfect, that's just what I needed to know! soldering is no problem, but yes, I can see where this might be a bit of a pain.

so after all this terminology education, I suppose I'm going to make two balanced TRS to TRS cables to run from my mixer to my headphone amp, and several XLR mic cables to replace my older, lower quality ones.

Miroslav, thank you very much for all the help!! I really appreciate it,

Ddubbdrum

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: DdubBdrum] #1738991 04/22/07 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: DdubBdrum


what I meant by this was the pair go from the mixer to the headphone amp and "from [the headphone amp], a pair of cables go to my KRK RP8 monitors."

does that make sense? there are inputs and outputs on the headphone amp so i run the monitors out of the "monitor outs" on the headphone amp.


Just be careful that those "monitor outs" are not amplified outs from the headphone amp...since your KRKs are self-powered...they need a line-level signal.

Most people go from the mixer to the monitors...using the provided Control Room A/B outputs...or some other output intended for feeding control room monitors.

But...maybe your headphone amp also has a line-level output that goes directly from its input....???

Just check before you plug in and turn on.


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1739066 04/22/07 05:11 PM
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good call, I'll check that.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: DdubBdrum] #1739084 04/22/07 06:10 PM
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What is a good quality wire?

I know I should get 2 conductor shielded, but what size should the conductors be, or does it matter?

Also should I only stick to certain brands for the wire? If so what companys should I stick to?

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1741126 04/25/07 08:02 PM
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Ok so is this the right type of cable?

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=MG%2D3080&off=18&sort=prod

I need to make 1/4 and some xlr cables. I will be using them to connect my gear to my DIGI and my digi to my monitors.

Let me know thanks \:\)

If it aint maybe you could post the link for the right type :). Mogami is prefered, but any great quality wire will do. I am not rich though lol...

Also is it hard to solder wires correctly? I have never done it before, but I am not stupid I can learn...

Last edited by thanksforhelpethan; 04/25/07 08:15 PM.
Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1741152 04/25/07 08:16 PM
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For 1/4" instrument cables and unbalanced lines...you only need 1 conductor shielded.

For mic cables and balanced lines...yes, 2-conductor shielded.

Brands...?

Mogami, Gepco, Belden, Gotham...etc
I think Markertek caries most of those brands....


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1741340 04/25/07 10:57 PM
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will i have problems soldering these professionally? I have done car audio before but never any soldering. If so I would probally rather just buy premade wires. ugh so many decisions...

If i do buy premade wires should I just bite the bullet and buy mogami golds? Or are there cheaper wires with the same results? I want excelent quality.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1743118 04/29/07 02:52 AM
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are the conectors that use crimps instead of soldering just as good? Or is soldering the way to go?

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1743120 04/29/07 02:57 AM
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solder...


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1807744 09/10/07 09:54 AM
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DO NOT CONNECT THE OUTPUT OF A HEADPHONE AMP TO THE INPUT OF YOUR POWERED SPEAKERS!!!!!!!

Use the mixers pre fader aux sends to go to the headphone amp. Here you want to use shielded cabling. If both mixer out and headphone input are balanced connections, then you want to use balanced cabling. If they are not BOTH balanced, then unbalanced cabling is what you use.

Use the mixers control room or main out to go to the speakers. Again you want to use shielded cabling, and if both mixer out and headphone input are balanced connections, then you want to use balanced cabling. If they are not BOTH balanced, then unbalanced cabling is what you use.

Belden, Mogami, Canare are all great cabling. Belden is usually the least costly, and works great.

Neutrik connections are excellent, simple to assemble, and lest costly than Switchcraft.

All line and mic level connections use shielded cabling. Only amplifier outputs use unshielded cabling. There is no such thing as balanced speaker cables. Speaker cables have 2 conductors, a +(plus) and a -(negative), there is no shield. You're confusing the headphone amps output, which is for headphones, and is a left, right and common neutral.

Again, DO NOT CONNECT YOUR KRK POWERED MONITORS TO YOUR HEADPHONE AMP UNLESS YOU REALLY DON'T LIKE YOUR KRK'S, THEY WON'T LIKE BEING CONNECTED THIS WAY.

Best of luck.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: thanksforhelpethan] #1807765 09/10/07 10:50 AM
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 Originally Posted By: thanksforhelpethan

I need to make a ton of 1/4 cables and a few XLR, and its all conecting my DIGI 001 my keyboar, my MPC, and my speakers/sub together. If you need more info on my equipment feel free to ask.


The 001 uses both balanced and unbalanced connections, depending on which i/o. Check the Digidesign site if they still have info up on the 001. However in all cases connections i/o of the 001 want ot be shielded cabling. All inputs (XLR and TRS) are balanced, and as I recall, the 8 TRS outputs are balanced, but the monitor outs are not. However best to check the specs beforehand.

Remember, if you are connecting an unbalanced input or output, the circuit is unbalanced, regardless of what the other end connects to. Don't waste money on balanced cables when you're connecting to unbalanced i/o's. Also, when using unbalanced cabling, stay far away from AC and expecially transformers and CRT's, and keep the length under 15'.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1808450 09/11/07 01:23 PM
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 Originally Posted By: miroslav
 Originally Posted By: DdubBdrum


what I meant by this was the pair go from the mixer to the headphone amp and "from [the headphone amp], a pair of cables go to my KRK RP8 monitors."

does that make sense? there are inputs and outputs on the headphone amp so i run the monitors out of the "monitor outs" on the headphone amp.


Just be careful that those "monitor outs" are not amplified outs from the headphone amp...since your KRKs are self-powered...they need a line-level signal.

Most people go from the mixer to the monitors...using the provided Control Room A/B outputs...or some other output intended for feeding control room monitors.

But...maybe your headphone amp also has a line-level output that goes directly from its input....???

Just check before you plug in and turn on.


For the record, I have a cheapy little Samson 4-bank headphone amp that has a "pass-through" in the back, unamplified. It's not that uncommon a feature.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: Griffinator] #1808545 09/11/07 04:00 PM
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DdubBdrum, if you could give us specifics as to what gear you are connecting, we can give you more specifics as to what cabling you should be using.

Re: Making your own cables? [Re: audiorulez] #1808633 09/11/07 06:00 PM
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Not looking to stop the positive, helpfull replies...
...but the OP posted this back in April...and I haven't seen him back here since with any follow-up questions.

So all these good suggestions may be falling on deaf ears at this point....and I'm kinda' thinking he musta' worked out his issues in the last 4-5 months! \:\)


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Re: Making your own cables? [Re: miroslav] #1808643 09/11/07 06:22 PM
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An excellent point Miro!!!!!
Lets hope they have!!!!

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