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Need workstation advice (for a software-only person)


Jazzed

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So I've only ever gigged and programmed sounds in software (I'm probably a bit younger than the average age of the forum :) )

 

I'm helping a friend who's an excellent pianist but has no real keyboard experience set up his rig for a show he's going to be playing. There are going to be a number of pop covers in it and so I'm going to help him with the necessary sound design to help replicate those tunes.

 

The problem is I've always done this in software (I'm not exceptionally experienced in sound design but somehow with Omnisphere, ES2, and some patience, I can always seem to get the result I'm looking for). This keyboardist does not have a gig-worthy laptop, and honestly these shows are a absolutely-cannot-fail-live situation and I wouldn't actually want someone who's new to a software rig to have to deal with potential issues.

 

The show has a budget to rent stuff. If I just get him a standard low end workstation, like a Krome or MOXF type of thing, how long is it going to take me to learn how to program on it, and what can these keyboards actually do? Will I be able to imitate pretty specific sounds from pop songs the way I do in my software rig? I imagine a VA would be much easier for me to get the pop synth sound design done on, but I'm going to need it to be multitimbral, as well as we need a lot of basic sampler type sounds as well (strings, trumpets, timpani, etc). Would it ever make sense for certain one-shot sounds to design them in my own setup and sample them (which would mean I'd need to select a workstation that you can load samples onto)

 

I've sort of just come to the realisation I don't even know what a standard workstation/ROMpler actually can do since I started out myself on software (aside from my stage pianos), so I don't want to make a renting mistake or end up wasting tons of my own time. Sorry for the long post and thanks for any advice!

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Fair point! And I will definitely add that to my list of products to consider.

 

It's not so much that I need it to sound like Omnisphere (although that would probably never hurt), it's more that Omnisphere is so huge that when I can't figure out how to make a certain kind of sound from scratch, I can often find something that's reasonably similar already and then modify it until I have what I want.

 

And I've spent more time on it than any other synth so I know how to use its interface much more effectively.

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I don't mean to sound flip, but we have no idea how long it would take YOU to learn, well, anything. :)

 

Meanwhile, the manuals all online, so you can get a sense of what you'd be up against.

 

You might want something that at least has a software editor ... not sure if the MOXF does?

 

In a similar position, looking at mid-range workstations, I would go for a MOXF. Great sound palette, can load samples, should start up pretty darn fast. Not the best build quality, but that's $$$.

 

And yeah, I would sample the one-shot stuff.

 

-John

I make software noises.
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Oh, and as far as what workstations "do":

 

- large built-in sample set and patch library

- a "master" keyboard function that allows you to configure zones and splits with a few button presses, with the ability to control external gear as well

- Most will have built in MIDI sequencing capabilities

- Multitimbral, usually 16-part

 

- Higher end will have audio in, built-in sample editing, more effects, and possibly dedicated sound engines for things like tonewheel organs and VA.

 

That's a short list.

I make software noises.
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1) I agree with johnchop.

 

2) These rompler/workstation instruments are not necessarily known for being intuitively easy to use. Best rent something sooner vs later and start working with it ASAP.

 

3) Does everything have to be done on one instrument? The MOXF is a great instrument with tons of great sounds, but ultimately everything is sample based. For "true" synthesizer sounds, I have to suggest that it would likely be much easier to get the sounds you're looking for from a VA like a Novation Ultranova or Roland Gaia. This also makes it much easier to play two sounds at once without having to get into layering and key splits on a single instrument.

 

I played in a classic rock band for quite a while that played covers of tunes by Genesis, Elton John, The Who, Rolling Stones, Allman Brothers, Rush, John Mellencamp, Huey Lewis, Journey, The Fixx, etc. I easily covered all of the sounds with a Yamaha Motif (rompler) and Virus TI (VA synth). If I joined a band today, I'd use my Yamaha MOX and pick up a Gaia or Ultranova. It's hard to imagine any popular recording of the modern era that can't be covered reasonably well by a combination of a rompler and a VA.

 

Michael

Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc.

 

 

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Here's another vote for the MOXF.

 

You can get a lot of additional variety to the internal sounds using the 'Mixing' feature. Each song slot has its own 'Mixing'. This determines what sound is used on each of its 16 channels. You can modify the sound on each channel of the 'Mixing', changing pretty much every facet of the original sound. The 'Mixing' (and these changes) are stored with each song.

 

I use this to find a sound that's similar to what I'm looking for, then go in and change filter, envelope, effects, etc., to hone on more precisely. And this all done without taking a 'User' memory slot in you 'Voice' (program) bank.

 

This allows the song mode to be used for setups, splits, layers with up to 16 sounds. Quite handy.

 

Greg

Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator
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Of old, there are some differences across the various brands, besides the clear more expensive equals better hierarchy.

 

For a "good pianist" with the desire to add some general midi type of other sounds, it may well serve him right to rent a Roland V-piano, and a simple all-round Rompler+ like the recent Roland.

 

All known brands I suppose you know at least from the internet have their own characteristics, and may require getting used to for people without a long-standing keyboard experience.

 

The Yamaha's are probably the best all-round instruments, but the way they achieve quality may not be transparent to use for newcomers. The Korgs sre popular, but usually they don't get as far, but are easier and will have some fun built in. I don't know the Nords well, but probably for the intended purpose they're a bit more expensive, without any clear advantage. The Kurzweils may do but have annoying side effects, whiCh may or may not preclude him from wanting one.

 

Of course popular music of the kind mentioned above isn't the same as the ill-produced rather brain-dead modernistic pop that indeed does deserve the predicate "music", I know not so much about, so I wouldn't know which synthesizer noodles would benefit it.

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I would checkout a Roland Jupiter 50 or at least watch some of the YouTube vids, such as this one

 

[video:youtube]

 

which features Gareth Bowen well known music MD

 

It would also be easy to integrate an iPad with it giving you access to a wide range of soft synths, samplers and other music programs if that's something you still felt you needed to do.

 

 

"Just a tad more attack on the filter, Grandad!"
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I would checkout a Roland Jupiter 50...

 

I've got one of those, and was reluctant to recommend it due to the relative shortage of standard rompler-esque sounds/features under the hood. The Roland Jupiters are very powerful VAs that do a really good job of emulating vintage analog synths. Much of their "wow" factor comes from the ability to stack multiple polysynths on top of each other and create some really big synth pad sounds. The Jupiter-50 comes with more than 1,500 preset synthesizer "tones."

 

On the flip side, however, the Jupiter only comes with about 70 "acoustic" instruments, such as pianos, electric pianos, guitars, winds, brass, basses, bells etc. Now, mind you, many of these are VERY good, and play well in the sonic sandbox with the gazillions of synth sounds that come on board.

 

The downside is that there aren't nearly as many of these types of sounds as you'll find in something like the MOXF. So, if you're playing covers, you may indeed need more sound choices to meet your needs, depending upon how particular you want to be with the sounds.

 

Also, the Jupiter-50/80 are not workstations - they do not have MIDI sequencers on board, nor do they have sampling capability.

 

All this being said, the latest Roland Jupiters are great keyboards, and probably the most misunderstood synths to hit the market in a long time. They're also rather pricey for what they do (IMHO), and have some serious shortcomings - lack of knobs/sliders, shortage of effects when utilizing multiple parts, and lack of a software patch librarian and comprehensive editor, just to name a few.

 

All said, I do love my Jupiter-50, and would have a Jupiter-80 if I could afford one. It's a very cool VA synth - it just doesn't have hardly any knobs on it, and requires a lot of menu-diving.

 

 

Michael

Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc.

 

 

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My view is that the ease with which a close sound can be selected and then tweaked if necessary would suit the OP, particularly for Roland and other iconic synth sounds which are nearly all present already. Personally I swapped my M3 for a JP because much better sequencer and samplers are available on my mac and increasingly on my iPad. But I have to agree that the lack of a librarian/editor is irritating, I also find the built in arps awkward to use and don't know why they decided not to let them drive the percussion.

 

I like the look of the moxfs but I heard they can be complicated for beginners though I've never owned one. Also the onboard arranger and workstation functions look good for home/studio use but an unnecessary complication for performing if you are a good player and don't need to 'cheat'.

 

I supposed the real answer is spoilt for choice, go and try some. And be sure to watch the keyboard wizard's youtube vids to hear what they can do.

"Just a tad more attack on the filter, Grandad!"
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Thanks everyone!

 

Luckily I do have some time, we don't need to make a decision for about a month, I'll go play with the MOXF and Jupiter 50 (which I probably would have missed if it hadn't been recommended, so thanks) and I'll do some manual browsing. Makes sense.

 

You might want something that at least has a software editor ... not sure if the MOXF does?

There is an editor it seems, excellent point.

 

Also, the Jupiter-50/80 are not workstations - they do not have MIDI sequencers on board, nor do they have sampling capability.

No need for sequencing, arps, or anything like that definitely. Sampling is only necessary if it came down to sounds I absolutely couldn't figure out how to do on board, especially a few one-shot synth effects that seem a bit complex in the listed tunes. Which is what I was originally mostly asking...how much can I do in a modern ROMpler. Perhaps workstation wasn't the right word.

 

Does everything have to be done on one instrument?

Kind of, because whatever we rent is already going to to be the second tier (first tier is the stage piano they already have).

 

Of course popular music of the kind mentioned above isn't the same as the ill-produced rather brain-dead modernistic pop that indeed does deserve the predicate "music"

I don't really know what you mean here, but I can say that the pianist I'm helping out here and I have absolutely no say in the music for this :)

 

Anyway, all advice has been very much appreciated!

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