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Soft pianos live ...


Tusker

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I thought it would be nice to have a thread to discuss our experiences. Are you using a soft piano live as one of your central sounds?

 

Would you please share your experiences, and the trade-offs. What are you currently using? (software, hardware, signal chain, musical context) What other approaches did you consider and discard?

 

Under what circumstances would you go hardware again?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Jerry

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I played one short R&B gig (20-minute showcase) with Neo-Soul Keys running inside Kontakt player on a recent Windows laptop with a decent audio interface.

 

Nothing bad happened, but I didn't have a good feeling about it, and at my next rehearsal the same laptop gave me a blue screen of death in the middle of a song.

 

At that point, I decided to go with hardware for gigs and rehearsals.

 

I still use Neo-Soul Keys, Vintage D, etc for recording, and they sound great, but I don't think the better samples really matter much in a live setting anyway. And latency is always an issue, although I'm able to get it down to 7-8 ms (as reported by the software).

 

Of course, maybe if I had a better laptop my outcome would have been different.

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I switched recently from using the Logic Yamaha to White Grand from Sampletekk. See sig for my live rig. Rock and contemporary covers so piano has to sit in mix but also several Adele songs where piano is the main instrument so piano has to be realistic, and have reasonable sounding sustain. This is where the logic Yamaha came up short IMO.

 

Sampletekk was selected as it was half price at the time and does not require an iLock. I have been playing out twice week (rehearsals and gigs) for 18 months with laptop, Win 7 for 6 months and then Mainstage, and have had no issues. The laptop is single purpose. I do not use it for anything else, it boots straight into Mainstage. The only issue I have had is with 3rd party VST's not registering. If this the case I delete them and find a substitute.

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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I played one short R&B gig (20-minute showcase) with Neo-Soul Keys running inside Kontakt player on a recent Windows laptop with a decent audio interface.

 

Nothing bad happened, but I didn't have a good feeling about it, and at my next rehearsal the same laptop gave me a blue screen of death in the middle of a song.

 

At that point, I decided to go with hardware for gigs and rehearsals.

 

I still use Neo-Soul Keys, Vintage D, etc for recording, and they sound great, but I don't think the better samples really matter much in a live setting anyway. And latency is always an issue, although I'm able to get it down to 7-8 ms (as reported by the software).

 

Of course, maybe if I had a better laptop my outcome would have been different.

I have Vintage D and Neo-Soul also and used to use them every week for quiet jazz trio gig. It worked fine after some fine tuning of PC. I learned over time what to disable (like antivirus,etc.) But then after time I tried internal sounds again and realized that they were fine and maybe more inspirational if that's possible. Maybe I just like the quick setup/tear down. :)

AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251

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I use this one:

 

http://rlv.zcache.com/piano_keyboard_pillows-ra6105122db95468ab5bc0674ed871cb4_2i4t2_8byvr_512.jpg

 

It's very soft. Makes naps during break a breeze.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I sometimes use Pianoteq live and i really love it. It's very deep in the editing department and really sweet for jazz/ethnic/pop - not the best for rock though.

For rhodes i use Scarbee and i have among other the Neo Soul Rhodes on my i-pad, but i haven't used it yet live. I will soon.

But in any case there's a hardware backup/replacement on stage. Usually a NE3 or a Nord Stage or Roland RD (backline) in case where...

I like both worlds. Each one has their own specific goods to offer, so why restrict my self to just one?

Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands
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I use True Pianos / Lounge Lizard EP-4 when using the laptop, or IK Multimedia iGrand Piano / iLectric / Sampletank when using the iPad.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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Thanks for sharing. I guess I am surprised that more people haven't tried the soft pianos. Or maybe they have and just gone back. I agree that having hardware for backup is essential. You'd think that with SSD, the big sample approach would work. It's interesting that for live use, the two examples that have been mentioned involved some modeling ... PianoTeq and TruePianos. What's the latency like, Miden and Yannis?

 

I am going to experiment with one or both of these over the next few months.

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I used to use Ivory live. It worked fine, but between an older laptop & a lousy feeling MIDI controller (M-Audio KS Pro 88) it wasn't a great experience. It worked fine, but there was always a slightly noticeable latency- playable, but enough latency to make it feel sluggish. I usually ran stereo, but on the occasions I didn't, it didn't collapse to mono well.

 

I'm much happier that I've replaced that with the SV1.

 

That being said, I'm thinking about starting to use Scarbee's Edgy piano again instead of the SV1's internal Wurly. I love the SV1's piano, rhodes & clav, but the Wurly's never been quite as nice as the Scarbee.

Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio

www.gmma.biz

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............ What's the latency like, Miden and Yannis?

I am going to experiment with one or both of these over the next few months.

 

Latency is no problems at all. I can run iGrand, iLectric (in ultra low latency mode) concurrently with my chart reading app Unrealbook, which also uses the iOS Musicplayer. I use a Roland A70 to control it all.

 

So in effect, 4 apps at the same time, no issues :)

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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I record with soft pianos. I like them a lot.

 

For what I do they work great. (Solo piano early American Music and classical). I use Galaxy's Vintage D , Vienna Grand and a Bluthner Baby Grand.

 

For my live gigs playing rock, pop, country I prefer less subtle realism and go for more of a harsher in your face timbre I get from hardware pianos. But I'm just a Honky Tonk piano player doing Rock and Modern Country.

 

I could probably get with soft pianos through altering the velocity curves, EQ and compression but I might as well go with hardware.

 

I really believe most working keyboard players do not want a realistic stage piano. It is not just cutting the band mix as much as it is cutting through myself. Especially when one hand is riding on the Hammond as I play piano lines on the bottom tier.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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I used to use a laptop live, for NIB4 and Rhodes, with my MR76 for piano. I tried TruePiano (before its Emerald version) and found the pianos just didn't cut it live; they got washed out. Then I got my NE2, after which I stopped using a laptop live. However, one time I did try Emerald live just to see if it fixed the issue, and it did. But I still don't plan to use a laptop live, simply for convenience reasons and the two keyboards I use are good enough.
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For my live gigs playing rock, pop, country I prefer less subtle realism and go for more of a harsher in your face timbre I get from hardware pianos. ....

 

I could probably get with soft pianos through altering the velocity curves, EQ and compression but I might as well go with hardware.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience with your genre. It's all valid. :thu:

 

The rock to country crowd might lean slightly toward the brighter (Yamaha) sound or the mid-rangy (Kurzweil) sound, just because it fits. The jazz guys might lean a little bit more to that mellow Roland RD sound ... but yeah I get what you are saying about simply being heard.

 

I would expect the jazz trio types to experiment more with software and want to get a little detail into their sounds simply because they are more exposed ... but maybe that's not a fair generalization ...? :idk

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Tusker,

 

I tried it a few times on gigs. The helpful thing is my MOX8 is it's own audio interface, so that made things easy.

 

However, the nature of our gigs made me very uncomfortable with the setup as I could not spend the time I wanted to make sure everything is okay. On many festival shows, I just don't have time to track down and correct a glitch in the matrix, so I stay with my hardware keyboards.

 

That being said, the sounds I got were great from the software.

I love what I can get from softsynths. I am just not comfortable using a laptop live, yet, in my situation.

 

I do use my iPad now and then as a sound source for my Alesis Vortex keytar using iPolysix and Galileo organ.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm currently making tests. I used Pianoteq on some rehearsals, and I'm planning to try it live. Like Escaperocks, I use an MOX8, it has a built-in audio interface, so all I need is my laptop and a USB cable. That`s also good because in case of failure I can jump to the mox internal sounds and get the gig done.

I mainly use AP for gigs, so changing sounds, slits or layers are not a big deal for me. If that was important, I would probably use Bidule or some other *stage* software (I'm familiar with Bidule on my studio work, but there are probably many alternatives...). For the moment I don't need any special host.

 

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I really believe most working keyboard players do not want a realistic stage piano.

 

I agree with this. The detail and realism of a soft piano is somewhat lost in a typical band mix. I would imagine soft piano's work well in an exposed setting (like a jazz trio).

Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator
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The detail and realism of a soft piano is somewhat lost in a typical band mix. I would imagine soft piano's work well in an exposed setting (like a jazz trio)
You and me both ...

I would expect the jazz trio types to experiment more with software and want to get a little detail into their sounds simply because they are more exposed ... but maybe that's not a fair generalization ...? :idk

... but they are not responding to this thread ... or they are not as common as we might imagine. Maybe there are other reasons why certain categories of performers shy away from software?

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I've never yet seen/heard a recording of a soft piano in serious live use, IIRC. "Video or it didn't happen ?" Too chicken, or so superior it defies description ? "Let our IT hobby be? :) " I'd like a great live sound from a cheap notebook, too, but lamentably, I thus far am not convinced..

 

T

 

I had posted several tunes on a soundcloud (no videos -sorry) account some time back - ALL were recorded using soft pianos/EP's :) at gigs.

 

They are all pulled down now and dumped (only because of recording quality), but they (soft pianos or VSTi's) do work and sound rather good imo

 

In a trio combo (the odd 4 piece) they are almost indistinguishable.

 

Demanding that "video it or it didn't happen" sort of reminds me of the primary school yard push and dare contests, rather childish.

 

If folks say it works why do you need videos, can't you just accept their word?

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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I tried it a few times on gigs. The helpful thing is my MOX8 is it's own audio interface, so that made things easy.
That's a really good point that I hadn't been considering. I'm trying to decide between MOX8 and PX-5S to replace my 1997 Ensoniq MR76. While I don't use a laptop live, it sure would be nice to use the keyboard's interface whenever I might want to in the future.
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I'm trying to decide between MOX8 and PX-5S to replace my 1997 Ensoniq MR76.

Would this be to put under your Nord?

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I've used Ivory and True Keys live a couple of times. Each time has been on a MacBook Pro with MOTU UltraLite, mostly in piano trio settings, occasionally as the main piano sound in a more electric ensemble.

 

Each time I've been very pleased with the depth and detail of timbre, and the overall sound in the room. I've not always been pleased with "speakability" but that has been more a function of tweaking velocity curves between whatever I was using for controller and the software.

 

What I've not been happy with is having to revert to the laptop to make any kinds of changes, rather than having a knob or slider right above my hands. This too has to do with my choice of controller and prior setup.

 

I didn't like the hassle of all the cabling and crap that goes with setup, and at the end of the day never quite felt the incremental increase in sound quality was worth the hassle - given how, quite frankly, what the audience appreciates is more based on what I play rather than the small improvement in sound quality.

 

However, the deal breaker for me is that every time I've tried to use soft piano, I've had a lockup, program crash, dropouts or some other intolerable technical problem that, while it can be rectified with a reboot, simply doesn't happen to me with hardware only.

 

So I've been hardware-exclusive since the last experiment, and will remain so for live gigs.

 

Occasionally I get to play trio on decent real acoustic pianos. And of course the experience is of a different category than even the best digital. Until soft pianos get me very close to that level of expression, dynamic and overall experience (I'm not holding my breath), I'll stick with the hardware I've got and keep practicing.

..
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I'm trying to decide between MOX8 and PX-5S to replace my 1997 Ensoniq MR76.

If I had a nickel for every time I've read a similar statement you've posted during the last few years about replacing that f**king Ensoniq, I could've bought you every keyboard you've considered. Twice. Just pull the trigger on something already, man!

 

:facepalm::deadhorse:;)

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I read that the Rippingtons' keyboardist was touring with a laptop running Ivory, back in the early days of soft pianos. Unfortunately, when I saw them live within the 1995-1997 time frame, I believe that was before the advent of soft pianos, so I can't really report on how the piano sounded in concert.
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I saw the Rippington's keyboardist, Bill Heller, at a local gig sometime in the last year and he was using Ivory in a Muse Receptor. He was running in mono IIRC. I don't want to comment on the sound because it would be pointless I'm a stereo guy and not interested in starting that debate again.
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