Touch screens... love 'em or hate 'em?

[Synthoid]

After replacing a defective touch screen overlay on my Korg M3 this summer, I'm wondering how many other M3 owners here have experienced that problem. I've read quite a few postings elsewhere during the last couple years.

 

I experienced an anomaly when demoing a Kronos a few months ago where the bottom inch of the screen was unresponsive. Thing is... my Triton is over 12 years old now and I've never had a problem with the screen.

 

Anyway, what are your experiences with touch screens?

 

 

[Bobadohshe]

I like them but I think they're a little overrated. Having to deal with a failing one can be very maddening.

[voxpops]

I really like my Krome's touchscreen, although it doesn't always respond first time - but at least there are alternative ways to achieve the same thing.

 

I've had a Korg non-touchscreen display go down on me before, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Krome.

[Synthoid]

Having to deal with a failing one can be very maddening.

 

Yeah it was awful. I turned the M3 on one day and the top inch of the screen was unresponsive. I calibrated it and everything was fine for a day or so, then it acted up again and I re-calibrated. Two days later the top was fine but the bottom of the screen was acting up. That went on for two weeks. I finally was unable to re-calibrate.

 

Then one day I turned on the keyboard and the whole screen was dead. I found a fantastic repair center here in PA, but it took the technician over 2 weeks to get the part. Anyway... when I brought the M3 into the shop, the screen was working again, at least part of it.

 

There were all sorts of suggestions online about how to "fix" the problem: keep the module flat, use a hair dryer on a low setting to warm it up... but my favorite was to turn the keyboard on and lay it face down for 8-10 hours. I never tried that one.

 

[CEB]

If you need a touchscreen then the keyboard's control surface sucks.

 

They be giving you all these fancy touch screens so they can skimp on prividing proper parameter control just like they skimp on power supply sections, proper keys and actions.

[Jason Stanfield]

Touch screens themselves are fine, but the GUI designs that manufacturers come up with often leave a lot to be desired. They try to cram too much stuff onto the screen, making everything you need super small, with wasteful graphics and negative space.

 

I really like what Roland is doing with their iPad connectivity. Connect one of their wifi USB gizmos, get on a network, fire up the iPad, and you've got a much larger surface area for editing and organizing sounds without the need to connect it to a computer. Their apps' GUIs are simple, clean, intuitive, and the available space is used wisely.

 

Additionally, no constant BIP BIP BIP BIP BIP ...

 

Yes, I know you can turn the noise off, but given how often you miss the target, you kind of need the sound to know if the screen is still functioning.

[WesG]

I think the smartest thing Roland is doing, though, is making their boards usable WITHOUT the iPad. That means they are less likely to remove critical knobs and sliders.

[Bill H.]

The touch screen on my V-Synth is still going fine after close to 10 years. I like it. There's got to be a way to instantly access the one parameter on the screen (out of dozens) you're after now and a touch screen is a pretty efficient way to do it without additional hardware.

 

Beyond that and without going as far as a computer or tablet, some Roland products let you plug in a plain old mouse - which I thought worked well when I demoed it.

 

There's nothing more frustrating than trying to navigate a blinking cursor through 20 or more parameters with just scroll buttons.

[J. Dan]

Never had a problem with the touchscreen on my old Triton Classics, but the pushbuttons were going out. Never had an M3. The Kronos touchscreen so far has been flawless. Only problem I have is some of the things you try to select on it are so small that they're difficult to select with fat fingers - like tracks in a sequence for instance.

[CEB]

I don't know why but all my favorite current interfaces have these itty bitty LCD displays.

 

S90XS, Prophet 08, Prophet12, XK3c, Moog Voyager, Kawai MP pianos etc....

[RABid]

Love the touchscreen on my VSynthXT since it can be used as a controller. Also agree about Roland's use of the iPad. Very handy with the Integra 7.

[timwat]

The Kronos touchscreen so far has been flawless. Only problem I have is some of the things you try to select on it are so small that they're difficult to select with fat fingers - like tracks in a sequence for instance.

 

+1 this has been my experience as well.

[sakari lindhen]

Touchscreen on my ipad: brilliant.

 

Touchscreens on synths like the Kronos and the m3; far too small and fiddly for my fingers.

[SpaceNorman]

The Kronos touchscreen so far has been flawless. Only problem I have is some of the things you try to select on it are so small that they're difficult to select with fat fingers - like tracks in a sequence for instance.

 

+1 this has been my experience as well.

 

Chalk up another +1 to this sentiment. I like the Kronos GUI ... and have been happy with the touch screen. There are some spots where I wish my fingers were a little "pointy-er" so I could be more accurate with my selections. I'll also say that it took me a little while to figure out that I have to "aim low" at whatever target on the touch screen I'm going after in order to compensate for the angle I'm usually looking from. Aside from that - I've been happy as can be with it. Compared the to Yamaha interfaces I had been using - the Kronos user interface is far more intuitive and way easier to use.

[HAMEGZ]

I really like my Krome's touchscreen, although it doesn't always respond first time - but at least there are alternative ways to achieve the same thing.

 

I've had a Korg non-touchscreen display go down on me before, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Krome.

 

I am glad you posted that experience, I just thought it was my fat fingers causing my Krome response issues...

[J. Dan]

I'll also say that it took me a little while to figure out that I have to "aim low" at whatever target on the touch screen I'm going after in order to compensate for the angle I'm usually looking from.

 

Have you tried recalibrating it? I had that problem til I recalibrated it (standing in my normal playing position) and it's much better.

[Stokely]

Haven't liked any of the keyboard touchscreens I've tried. My needs are for live gigs though, and no matter what the board I'm going to set it up to make for very few button presses/touches anyway. I will say I loved using my Virus live with all the dedicated knobs but I don't think a touchscreen would inspire me that way.

 

For home use I use software; if I used a keyboard workstation I'm sure the touchscreen would come in handy. I do use ipads all the time for non-music purposes so I'm not a complete UI dinosaur

[Synthoid]

They be giving you all these fancy touch screens so they can skimp on prividing proper parameter control

 

Actually, I find that Korg's touch screens allow much faster access to parameter control. And multiple tabs give you additional choices for deeper programming. Plus, you can easily create set lists of favorite patches and have them at your fingertips for live playing.

 

In contrast, I'm forever pushing buttons on my Motif XS.

 

 

[CEB]

Does it? I'm just being a Luddite.

 

All my real time controls for gigging are really fast. If I do any programming at all I have to plug my laptop into any Yamaha keyboards.

 

Part of it is I know how nasty my iPhone screen gets, especially if I had fried chicken for lunch. I can't image using one of those touch screens for real time paramenter control during a gig. LOL.

[Synthoid]

Part of it is I know how nasty my iPhone screen gets, especially if I had fried chicken for lunch. I can't image using one of those touch screens for real time paramenter control during a gig. LOL.

 

Yeah, I try to avoid eating ribs right before a gig.

 

Of course there are other controls you can use with Korg workstations instead of the screen... data wheel, pedals, up/down arrows, etc.

 

 

[RABid]

I'd be more worry about getting a slider grimy. In my experience those have the least tolerance for dirt and grime.

[wmp]

Both. I love 'em and I hate them. Since getting this Android thing I've been poking at every other screen I see. Every machine in the place has a different pointing and gesturing device. As if I were not confused enough already.

[SpaceNorman]

I'll also say that it took me a little while to figure out that I have to "aim low" at whatever target on the touch screen I'm going after in order to compensate for the angle I'm usually looking from.

 

Have you tried recalibrating it? I had that problem til I recalibrated it (standing in my normal playing position) and it's much better.

 

Yes, I have recalibrated it. However, in my case, I play seated ... which means that with the Kronos on my 2nd tier ... I'm looking at it from a pretty shallow angle. The calibration is fine when I'm looking at it "straight on" - however, I don't think the "calibration" will compensate for the angle that I'm usually looking at it from. Now that I'm used to "aiming low" - it's really not a big deal - just one of those idiosyncrasies that once you get used to, it's not much of an issue.

[JeffLearman]

It depends on the screen. Some are great, some suck. That said, I've never had a keyboard with a touch screen. I'd only want that for setting stuff up, but not for use while playing (with the notable exception of using it as a controller, perhaps).

[Synthoid]

So... nobody else here with an M3 has experienced problems with the touchscreen then?

 

 

[nadroj]

From what I've tried, I'd probably find them too fiddly to use live. Much prefer having knobs and sliders to grapple with. Even with iPad/phone apps, my sliding technique is too inaccurate for me to use them effectively. That's just me, though. I'd imagine if I was given a board with a touch screen I'd get used to it after a few gigs.

[J. Dan]

I think the Kronos implementation works pretty well - it gives good graphical representation with direct access rather than menu diving while setting up.

 

When playing live, i'm always in setlist mode. Big square blocks on the screen with song names and notes. Just touch the song you wanna play. For realtime control, you have dedicated sliders, knobs and buttons - 9 sliders, 8 knobs, 16 buttons, with different modes to assign them to mix, drawbars, synth parameters, etc. if you arent sure what's assigned where, hit the control surface soft button and the screen shows you the current assingnments of the controls. You also have dedicated transport contols, bank/patch buttons. It's basically rundundant control surface - everything you would expect a non-touchscreen keyboard to have AND a touchscreen.

 

(Edited to say 16 buttons instead of 8....plus buttons to select 7 different pages of assignments for each of those, with more buttons to toggle assignments in some of those pages.

[PinkFloydDudi]

Does it? I'm just being a Luddite.

 

All my real time controls for gigging are really fast.

If you properly program things in advance, the kronos has plenty of hardware controls that you can set to eb real-time controls as well.

 

If I do any programming at all I have to plug my laptop into any Yamaha keyboards.

Part of it is I know how nasty my iPhone screen gets, especially if I had fried chicken for lunch. I can't image using one of those touch screens for real time paramenter control during a gig. LOL.

See any programming requires no laptop on the Kronos. Not for nothing, but touching buttons/knobs with dirty fingers is eventually going to cause them to stick anyway (I will point to my old school nintendo controllers as an example).

 

As long as keyboards don't try to make things touch-screen only, and the hardware is still there that you can program for the real-time controls...I don't see the negative side of having basically a laptop screen right on your keyboard.

 

To sum it up, +1 again for the comments regarding the Kronos.

[poserp]

I like touchscreens, but almost all touchscreen UIs I've played with on keyboards need a lot of work. Biggest issue is having controls on the screen that don't mesh well with a 2d touch surface -- I hate turning "knobs" on a touchscreen, for instance. If you have a flat screen, why emulate 3d controls? I say accept the flatness and come up with input controls that are better suited to it.

[Synthoid]

Biggest issue is having controls on the screen that don't mesh well with a 2d touch surface -- I hate turning "knobs" on a touchscreen, for instance. If you have a flat screen, why emulate 3d controls?

 

Actually, I rarely use the screen for that sort of thing. My Korg M3 has plenty of real sliders, buttons, and of course a data wheel.