Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Topic Options
#1683199 - 07/18/05 11:28 AM Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
Keyplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/01
Posts: 410
Loc: Maryland, USA
I can get a decent mix and it sounds great on my mains (Mackie 824's), Headphones (AKG 270's), and car stereo (Infinity). But when I put it through my Roland MA-8's, which represents my boombox or PC speaker mix, the bottom drops out. If I mix on the MA-8's to get the bottom present, it's waay too heavy on the other playback scenarios.

How do I get my translations to go 4 out of 4? Is this a mastering issue?

Top
#1683200 - 07/18/05 11:41 AM Re: Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
where02190 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
How do you have the tone controls set on the MA-8's? In order to be even remotely accurate, the bass needs to be about 2:30 and the treble about 9:00.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful.

NP Recording Studios
Analog approach to digital recording.

Top
#1683201 - 07/18/05 12:11 PM Re: Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
Lee Knight Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/19/01
Posts: 1077
Loc: Encinitas,CA,UNITED STATES
...or, you might not be putting any hi bass in. If other things sound good on your Rolands but your work's bass goes away, try adding 200 or so.

Top
#1683202 - 07/18/05 12:52 PM Re: Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
Keyplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/01
Posts: 410
Loc: Maryland, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by where02190:
How do you have the tone controls set on the MA-8's? In order to be even remotely accurate, the bass needs to be about 2:30 and the treble about 9:00.
Keyplayer: I've got everything set at "12 oclock," which, I thought, represented FLAT. I've been running all the commercial CDs (Jill Scott/Celine Dion/Pat Metheny/Will Downing/Yes/Yellow Jackets - LOT'S of styles) through them on those settings and they all sound fine. However all the local artists from various project studios all seem to suffer that same bottom end loss to a lesser degree. That's why I thought it MIGHT just be a mastering issue.

So now I'm fooling around with some mastering tools to see if I get any improvement. So far, it's just been okay. But all I've got is the mastering bundle that comes with Nuendo. So I'm sure I'd get better results with a pro mastering house. I just want to be sure that I have a mix that I can feel good about taking to a mastering engineer. So if you have any other suggestions, please let me know.

I'll try the other settings you suggested and let you know what happens.

Top
#1683203 - 07/18/05 02:57 PM Re: Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
Bill@Welcome Home Studios Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 9613
Quote:
Originally posted by Keyplayer:
[QUOTE]...However all the local artists from various project studios all seem to suffer that same bottom end loss to a lesser degree. ...
most often the project studio stuff that I see coming to me for mastering suffers from overbearing and muddy low end, as their home studio speakers (and probably, their rooms...) don't support full range audio.

Could their be a flipped wire, or a speaker placement issue?

Bill
_________________________
"I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot."

Steve Martin

Show business: we're all here because we're not all there.


Top
#1683204 - 07/18/05 04:12 PM Re: Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
where02190 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
If you are comparing your unmastered mixes to commercially released material, there is your problem.

Also, the 12 o'clock position is not flat on the MA-8's. They will be bass light and treble heavy at those settings. As previously stated, about 2:30 on the bass and 9:00 on the treble is about as flat as they get. (FWIW, I did a spectrum analysis of them to discover this.)

I modified mine, adding a bit of fiberfill to the insides, just enough to kill that nasty 400hz plastic cabinet resonance, and the low end response improved a bit as well. the old NS-10 tissue over the tweeter helps to balance that out also.

I use them for cue monitors when I mix big festivals, the multiple inputs are very handy, I can have the console cue out (with a delay inline to compensate for distance from the PA) on one set of line inputs, CD/playback in the other set to cue up any intros or between show music, and I route a talkback mic from the monitor engineer into the mic input. I have two sets, so the monitor guy does the same thing, and with switched mics we can quickly communicate without having to use clearcom.

I also use them as a 4th set of reference, as I have them in my office connected to my ipod and laptop. they also serve as reference monitors for remote recording.

For $80 new, they're tough to beat.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful.

NP Recording Studios
Analog approach to digital recording.

Top
#1683205 - 07/18/05 05:40 PM Re: Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
Philip O'Keefe Offline
10k Club

Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
First of all, I wouldn't expect full bass response from those little Roland MA-8's. According to their specs, they don't really have anything going on below 80 Hz, and I would guess they're light even at that point. I'd try Where's recommended tone control adjustments first and see if that helps you. I would expect things to be "light" in the bass when played back on those. As Where suggested, I'd try to match the sound to a well mixed commercial CD when referencing on those speakers... chances are that those commercial CD's will also sound light in the bass on them. You said they sound okay, so that makes me think that Lee might be correct insofar as a lack of 100 - 200 Hz in your mixes. Hard to say without actually hearing them. Maybe you could post an example to the "Is Your Recording / Mix Any Good? Find Out Here" thread and ask for opinions and suggestions? At least that way we could hear what we're talking about. \:\)

One other thought... no offense to Where, but I'd avoid the "NS10 tissue trick" like the plague.

http://www.bobhodas.com/tissue.html
_________________________
Phil O'Keefe
Sound Sanctuary Recording
Riverside CA
http://www.ssrstudio.com
http://www.philokeefe.com
pokeefe777@ssrstudio.com
My New Forum on Harmony-Central

Top
#1683206 - 07/18/05 06:09 PM Re: Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
where02190 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
None taken Phil. I said it helped, but don't confuse that with it being how I run mine. (I don't do it to my NS-10's either.)
_________________________
Hope this is helpful.

NP Recording Studios
Analog approach to digital recording.

Top
#1683207 - 07/19/05 10:17 AM Re: Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
Keyplayer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/19/01
Posts: 410
Loc: Maryland, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by where02190:
If you are comparing your unmastered mixes to commercially released material, there is your problem.

Also, the 12 o'clock position is not flat on the MA-8's. They will be bass light and treble heavy at those settings. As previously stated, about 2:30 on the bass and 9:00 on the treble is about as flat as they get. (FWIW, I did a spectrum analysis of them to discover this.)
Keyplayer: You're right. Those settings mad a big difference. They sound a lot more like the Mackie's now (Well... you know what I mean. The balance is much more similar). I THOUGHT "noon" was flat. \:o So now it sounds a lot closer on the MA-8s than it did. But I'm still not satisfied.

Why do you consider comparing my mixes to commercial releases the "problem?" Besides the mastering issue, which I can account for, what other issues am I missing?

Top
#1683208 - 07/19/05 01:48 PM Re: Translation Hell: Any 3 out of 4
where02190 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
Your unmastered mixes are not in the same sonic league as a commercially mastered disc, which will have better fidelity (because it has been mastered) more volume(giving even more preception of depth) and better overall tonality than your unmastered mixes.

Kinda like comparing a well tuned engine with one that is not quite there yet.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful.

NP Recording Studios
Analog approach to digital recording.

Top