Hi folks,

I've spent the last few days building my panels using Ethans plans/advice and the acoustic FAQ and also based on the designs seen in another thread on these forums by dyazdani.

Although I'm almost finished the frames now, I'm aware that the fibres from the rockwool may still hang about in the air, especially as I want to make four of the panels moveable to treat another area of a recording space I have. Would it be possible to 'seal' the back of the panel in any way? Even with something like brown paper or another type of fabric? Oh and before I forget I also purchased a length of acoustic fabric so that's what's going to cover the front, sides and eventually get stapled neatly in the corners on the back made out of plywood. But of course the backs will be open and i'm not sure if there's anything I can do to seal them.

I took the time to jigsaw out the sides of the panels to reduce the amount of reflective surfaces, and make the frames as light as possible. Also my corner bass traps (2x2) will have foil facing on the front while all of the other pieces making up the depth have had their foil removed. The (2x4) reflection panels will not have foil facing.

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions welcome - and thanks again to Ethan for providing such a great forum and to everyone else for sharing their knowledge.

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

Very cool, nice job!

> Would it be possible to 'seal' the back of the panel in any way? <

Any soft fabric will do for that.

> I also purchased a length of acoustic fabric so that's what's going to cover the front, sides and eventually get stapled neatly in the corners on the back made out of plywood. <

If these are to be used as bass traps mounted across corners or off the wall, do not put a plywood back on them! Just wrap the fabric all the way around and staple it to the wood edges.

--Ethan

Nice Job! Scary someone actually used my project as a model...

I would have liked to cut holes in the sides as well, but laziness set in.

Hi folks,

Just thought I'd share the on-going construction pics of my new panels. I know when I was looking to make my own, the more pictures I could find the better I got to know what all my options were. That is not to say that these panels are in any way the best way of doing things, just that this seems to have worked for me so far and may help a few other folks out.

Ethan - I'm just about there getting all the panels finished, but I'd like to ask your opinion on hanging them. The side reflection panels (2x4 with one peice of 2" thick rockwool) I think I'm supposed to hang away from the wall, leaving if possible the same space as the depth of the panel itself. I've got a few ideas on how to do this, but I'm not sure if they'll be a bit 'Heath Robinson' and I would be very grateful for any advice.

Also, my bass traps (2x2's for the corners and one 2x4 to go at an angle at the top-back wall where the back wall meets the ceiling) I was going to put a couple of hooks into a joist and use picture frame wire or even light-weight chains to hang them from. I'm sure this is possible with my build of flat/apartment as I have a clothes pully in my kitchen and this is tethered to the ceiling in a similar fashion. It's so strong I could probably swing on it - but rest assured I have never tried and probably never will!!

Anyway, here are some more pictures of my work in progress.



2x2 Top corner bass trap finished.



Frames showing extra support for rockwool slabs. I had to do this as they turned out slightly smaller than I'd allowed for so I had to add a wee bit of wood around the sides to keep it in place and also to support it and stop it from sagging. That's the frames on the right-hand side. in the above picture.



Three 2x4 reflection point panels and the two top corner bass traps ready to be mounted.



Here's a 2x4 reflection point panel finished with the fabric stapled on. Basically, it was a case of laying it flat and not moving it until it was stapled all the way around. I figured if I moved it, I'd create a crease or a fold and then would staple the rest of the screen with the fold in place. That way, I managed to get the fabric looking even.



This last picture shows the corner up close. Just lots of patience, and *lots* of staples!!

All the best

Geoff

nice job!! how did you fold the fabric around the corners? it looks great in the close-up!

> nice job!! how did you fold the fabric around the corners? it looks great in the close-up! <

Thanks!!

It's just a case of taking it really slowly and stapling every time you get the next bit taught. The fabric is actually in two bits.

It's like wrapping a big present, there's a bit of a fold underneath each corner, then when I've got that done I cut a straight line from the remaining fabric and then started stapling again.

When I get the next few panels covered I'll try to take a few pictures as I go. That might explain my method a bit better.

Cheers

Geoff

2 thumbs up sir.. OUTSTANDING!!

Geoff,

I'm not much of a construction guy, and however you can get them to stay in place will be fine.

--Ethan

I'm SO copying this...

This is so beautiful, I've got tears in my eyes.

Hi Geoff,
God work, I see you also "opened" the sides of the panles, as I did (using a milling machine):
http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/26/t/001440.html

I also see, you are a step further as I am, you have covered the panels with fabric. Any acoutical results?

trif.

Hi Trif,

To be honest, it's just finger in the air stuff over here. From reading the various posts I'm pretty sure most of the stuff I'm doing is correct in terms of deadening the room and reducing standing waves / early reflections but I am a complete idiot when it comes to anything remotely mathematical.

I started down the road of trying to understand acoustic measurement, but soon got lost in the mire. I realise it's a hell of a lot of effort for something that's finger in the air, but I generally go on if something sounds right - especially while mixing, rather than the exacting art of knowing which frequency to cut and which to boost.

So no waterfall graphs or acoustic measurements I'm afraid.

I opened the sides of my panels with a jigsaw before I put them together and it was incredibly time consuming given the amount of frames I made (11 in total). What is a milling machine? Your frames look great.

I'm also at a bit of a lull just now with my frames as I underestimated the amount of fabric I would require and having ordered some more, I'm two weeks down the line and there's still no sign of the stuff.

I also saw that you have your speakers on high density foam pads. I'm thinking of doing the same for mine, although I don't really know which ones to get - to be honest they're quite expensive for what they are as far as I can see.

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

I think your efforts will be rewarded well with a more balanced, acoustically sound room. The panels look great and you have done a very good job of illustrating for some of the DIY folks just how it can be done.

This thread is of great value to others.

Nice work!


Joel

Geoff,
Milling is the process of cutting away material by feeding a workpiece past a rotating multiple tooth cutter. Just type in your browser "milling machine" and you will get plenty of result. In my case milling machine was used to cut out all the circles on the side of the frames. Huge amount of job!!!

Now, looking at your frames, the jigsaw is very much DIY type of solution and I believe you that it also requires plenty of time. But well done.

In my case Bryan was the MAN, who conducted all the acoutic measurments, including speaker-sitting-panels-soffits-placements. Do not forget this is all important! Bryan has answered all of my quistions. And the result is just fantastic. I have 16 panels, and appr. 16 m soffit in my room. My response swing is around 7-8dB.
Funnily enough, in the same room I have one boombox, what after the treatment just started to "produce" more basses.

BTW/OT, I have just finished my DIY grot-box project, and it can be found on:
http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showfl...&fpart=1#250472
I did not measure its response yet, but I am very curious.

Back to your question: the foam under my Dynaudio speakers is from Auralex. If it is the best foam/approach I do not know. Next: the stands under the speakers are filled with dry sand.

In fact I had an extensive very original design to make the frames from metal, but I did go for the MDF solution.

This forum is very helpfull as are all the guys here.

trif.

I finally got all my panels finished after two weeks of waiting on more fabric coming in. I've placed the panels round the room with the exception of the top, back corner 2x2 bass traps which I've managed to balance on top of the door and the other on top of a shelf. The difference in the room of course is incredible. Even when you speak while moving through the house and you go into the treated room your voice all of a sudden becomes as clear as a bell.

Songs I know really well I've been playing through the speakers in the room and I'm hearing things I didn't know were there.

Also, although i'm not much a techie in terms of measuring responses etc I can totally hear certain notes or frequencies being picked out. I'm guessing without the bass trapping totally in place yet there are some flyaway notes and tones happening, but they're so more apparent now that the room is treated. I think I still need something for the ceiling and the sides above the reflection panels. I'll post pics once I get them up on the walls.

I know I've asked this before, but I still have few ideas on how to effectively hang the wall reflectors. If anyone who has done this before is reading this and can put any ideas my way I'd be very grateful.

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

> The difference in the room of course is incredible. <

Yep.



--Ethan

Another believer.

I believe! I believe!

Listening to Aimee Mann's Lost in Space, track 1 - Humpty Dumpty. That drum fill at the beginning and those mellotron strings (chamberlain cellos I think) when they come in at the end of the first chorus. Acoustic nirvana.

Just one question - a ceiling cloud made out of the same rigid fibreglass/rockwool...Foil on or off?

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

> a ceiling cloud made out of the same rigid fibreglass/rockwool...Foil on or off? <

Off, unless it's intended for bass trapping and it's not at a first reflection point or over a reflective floor.

--Ethan

Hello again folks. Getting to the end of the project now! All the panels are up and I've also constructed a ceiling cloud out of two pieces of rockwool using much thinner wood for the sides.

Pics!!



This is the method I decided to use to fix the panels to the wall. a bar across the back of the panel rests on three 'fingers' coming out of a wooden plate fixed to the wall.



I then added a thin bar to the front to stop the frame from falling off once it was attached.



A thin spacer was then fixed to the bottom of each panel to hold it away from the wall.



Finally, a scrap of wood was put into place on the 'fingers' to stop the panel from being pushed in by accident. All in all, a bit heath robinson but it does the job.



Also a wee bit of measuring got them evenly spaced horizontally and vertically - even if the walls in my flat are squint in the first place!

The corner one took a bit more thought, but with a little bit of help I managed to work out the best spacing and built a support with the shelf idea again with a bar across the back of the panel.



Here's the panel on the shelf. I had to cut the bar support to allow it to fit flush against the wall.



It looks like it's being magically held in place when seen from the front!

(post continues below - 8 images per post)

Moving on, the corner bass traps (2'x2') needed to go into the top, rear corners of the room. I tried going into the ceiling for this, then soon realised that unless I hit a beam I'd be going into plaster and thin wooden slats. They would hold but I wouldn't get the angle I required. So I had a quick look at the way Ethan uses to suspend Real Traps and saw that the wall would be a much safer bet. I fixed a plate to the wall with four long screws into plugs. Finishing by putting a large eye hook into a further plug in the middle. I ended up not using the large eye hook and just used smaller brass open hooks screwed directly into the wood, which seemed just as good. The wood plate won't budge from the wall in a hurry as it's on tight and I used the same open hooks on the back of the bass trap itself. It attaches to the wall plate in four places by lightweight chains, which have a load up to 20kg each. The bass trap itself is only 5kg and is divided over three taught chains, the fourth is there just for good measure.





The middle bass trap (2' x 4') is held up with a block on the wall and is resting against the two corner traps. The angle is not ideal, but I reckon it's probably ok.





The ceiling cloud I made out of two pieces of 2x4 rockwool, building a much lighter frame and covering with scraps of the acoustic fabric. Because they were scraps I didn't get them quite as taught as the other panels and had to 'join' them in the middle with another piece of very thin hardboard, which also doubles as a support for the rockwool so it doesn't sag over time.



Again these were suspended with chains and hooks, although the weight wasn't so bad so the hooks going into thin wood slats was fine for this. Angled slightly up at the back and down at the front. I don't know if this makes a difference, but it seemed to make sense.

Finally, I don't have a wide-angled camera and as such it's quite difficult to take a shot of the whole room so I took a few shots from behind the desk to give an idea of the overall room.





The curtains on the front wall, I realise don't make up for the fact that there's a solid wall on one side and a window recess on the other, but it evens up the room and keeps the light out - one thing I hate is squinting against a bright light in the background when i'm trying to look at a screen. Although I did line the ones on the side of the window to make them slightly thicker.

Anyway, onto how it sounds. In a word - incredible. The detail on vocals and strings, guitars, percussion etc is just fanatastic. I keep finding songs I haven't listened to for years and when I play them I hear them for the first time again.

However - and there's always a however, through treating the room acoustically I have found a frequency or note that seems to ring. I'm not very up on the whole hertz and measurements etc but I fear I might need to get into that now. Every time an Ab (A flat) bass note appears in a song the bass booms. I'm guessing this is the resonant frequency of the room. Any note either side seems fine and the bass overall is punchy and tighter than it was.

My guess is that the bass trapping at the top and back of the room is good, but not deep enough. Perhaps the room is too small to angle the corner traps in and they should perhaps be flush with the side walls. By this I mean, perhaps the bass is getting in the corners and repeating back out again. The one between the 2x2s is perhaps not at the right angle and all three may need to have the space filled behind them.

In addition, I think perhaps the speakers are too close to the corners, albeit one side is onto a window which is less of a problem. I could bring the whole desk etc forward but I'd lose some space. I also wouldn't want the hassle of taking down the side reflection panels and re positioning them, although there is some give and take left and right of +/- 5 or 6 inches.

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions more than welcome. I've come this far and would like to get the room sounding as good as possible before I finish.

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

Looking good!

> I'm not very up on the whole hertz and measurements ... I've come this far and would like to get the room sounding as good as possible before I finish. <

I think it's time to do some measuring. I mean, how much is your time and aggravation worth? You've saved so much on the treatment by going DIY, I suggest you spring for the relatively little $150 to get ETF. Once you get it going, each measurement takes five seconds. And from that you'll know the true response, modal ringing, and so forth.

--Ethan

ETF purchased. I may be some time....



Geoff

Hi Ethan,

I'm afraid I can't make head nor tail of the software (R+D) which is not a slight on the software itself - it's excellent and I'm sure has proved its worth many times over. I'm just don't have a technical mind and as such can't really make sense of the output.

However, I am attempting to place my speakers to get rid of the bass frequency problem and to this end I have taken everything out of my studio leaving my speakers, my DAW etc and a seat and I'm placing a speaker, moving round the room to see if it changes and I'm getting there. The booming frequency went as soon as I moved my head further back. I tried moving everything back and forward but soon got all the leads in a mess so thought, I'll get the speakers right first then move everything else back in.

I think the corners of my room (behind the speakers) are the cause of my problems. Putting a signal to one speaker only and moving about the room I get the strongest bass signal when I am on the opposite wall about a foot in front of the line of the speaker. Not the best listening position I think you'll agree and then when I put the other speaker on in the same position I lose most of the bass altogether.

In fact, the best overall listening position with the strongest, fullest consistent bass is about 1 foot off the floor in the about two feet back from the line of the speakers!! So all the bass is going into the floor it seems.

Sorry if this is a bit of a long winded explanation. I feel like i'm struggling a bit now.

Thanks again for all your help so far.

Kind regards

Geoff

Update on the update!

The table I have in front of the speakers is causing major problems with the bass, especially the Ab. So it may be that I have a large reflective surface *in front* of the speakers which is pretty bad all round really...

Geoff

Geoff,

> which is not a slight on the software itself <

The user interface is not as good as it could be, but it's not too bad either once you know what to do and have done it a few times. First, do you have the mike and wires connected properly? The image below is from the ETF Help file, and I added the part showing the "Y" splitter which is also needed.

> I'll get the speakers right first then move everything else back in. <

Yes, that's the best approach. Are you able to get a basic low frequency response? Once you can do that the next step could be running ETF in "continuous" mode. This sweeps repeatedly and updates the screen repeatedly, so you can move things around in the room and immediately see what changes.

--Ethan

Since you guys are moving on this subject, I too just purchased the EFT which is of course now RPlusD. My simple question is how to place the microphone? I am using for now the RS SPL meter mic. Ethan I noticed in one of your photos that you had the mic facing the floor. What's that all about? I have run some preliminary tests and have some results, but I wasn't clear on the mic placement. There is a section on EFt's site called "demo Room", but it has very little to do with a studio, it more geared towards a nice listening room, moving the speakers and listener around for optimum sound.

Geoff,

BTW did you end up with EFT or RPlusD?

How about you Ethan what's up with the new name?

I noticed Doug Plumb is offering to supply EFT if you want it, but I am following his urgings (can that word be plural?) and just loaded the RPlusD.

Hi Ethan,

"Are you able to get a basic low frequency response?"

My initial loopback response test was very similar to what Doug had on the screen and then I hooked up an SM58 through my MindPrint mic pre and managed to do all 32 measurements and save them as an overall room measurement. I then went on to save them and followed the next part of the video to do a low frequency response (I think that's what it was), performed another 32 measurements and saved this to a file.

I'm watching the videos where Doug goes on to explain what to do with the measurements, but I think through the use of terminology I quickly lose the thread and I can't figure out what's going on. At that point, my measurement file just looks like 32 nicely coloured waves on a graph and that's about as far as I get.

I'm going to make a real effort over the next couple of days to get into the software and exhaust all the help material to see if I can break through my cloud of ignorance!

Anyman - to answer your question, I went with R+D after purchasing ETF on Doug's advice.

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

Have you looked at both the "impulse response" and the "frequency response". The sound that plays through your speaker is a very specialized sweeping PSD wave form. When you switch your view to a bode respose you can see the room in db vs Frequency. It is there that you will see the modal responses (dips and peaks) caused by your room. From there you can switch to a waterfall graph to see the decay of the bands and relate to the delay or time propagation of the frequencies.

> My simple question is how to place the microphone? I am using for now the RS SPL meter mic. <

The RS meter has an omnidirectional microphone, so in theory it shouldn't matter which way it faces. I've used it with the capsule facing forward toward the speakers, and other times I've pointed it straight up. I don't recall ever pointing it toward the floor, but that should work okay too.

> How about you Ethan what's up with the new name? <

Say what? What new name?

I use ETF and R+D. Until recently there were a few things ETF did better than R+D, though mostly R+D does much more and does it better. Doug Plumb is working hard on R+D, making new versions all the time. He and I are working closely on this, and I've done a fair amount of testing for him both in my home studio and my living room home theater.

--Ethan

Geoff,

> At that point, my measurement file just looks like 32 nicely coloured waves on a graph and that's about as far as I get. <

Understand that R+D does a lot of things, and all of them may not be useful to you. For example, I have never used the feature that lets you average dozens of readings as an aid to setting a parametric equalizer.

I use R+D the same way I use ETF: I run a single test, then look at the LF response, LF ringing with the waterfall display, and sometimes I look at reverb time and individual reflections. But mostly I use the raw response and waterfall graphs. And only one at a time, or maybe a few at a time to assess whatever I'm experimenting with, like speaker or bass trap placement.

Does this help?

--Ethan

if you are having trouble using etf, look at the "demo room" on the etf site, its quite useful

narco

Interesting, because I it found not too useful for a studio, good for a home listening environment however, or maybe I'm just too stupid to know any better.

I've got a question about how the bass traps mount in corners. In every picture I see, the traps look a little out of place when they're mounted in the corner, be it wall to wall corner, or wall to ceiling corner. The bass traps being built are made out of a frame of wood and all the edges are square. That means when you mount it against the wall you're left with a sort of unsightly look under the frame. Would it worsen the bass absorption if you made the bass traps go tight against the wall? Much the same look you get if you stack a bunch of triangles of 703 in the corner. No right angles coming off the wall at a 45.

Am I explaining myself well enough?

you can make your traps that way it just takes more work for probably not a lot of acoustic benefit. or harm for that matter.

From what ethan explains, the unit going across the corner allowimg air flow behind it and it then works better than a triange that fills the whole corner. leaving a gap at the edge helps even more. Of coarse mass helps, so it may be better to have a thick triangular one that goes in tighter. I am not the expert, I'd like to hear Ethan's response to this but he never chimed back in.

Hi Ethan,

Sorry it's taken so long to get back to you on this. In answer to your question, I'm still none the wiser when it comes to how to read the graph from even a single measurement.

All I know is that if I take a very simple tone and run it up an octave in a chromatic scale there are several notes where the note realy booms in the room. It's almost as though my acoustic treatment is having little to no effect.

I was going to try and post a screenshot from RPlusD there, but to be honest I don't think it would help as I don't understand what I'm doing with it, let alone how to interpret the results and what I should be looking for to improve.

Could it be that my bass traps at the back of the room and high in the ceiling are really having no effect? This could exlain what SonicClang was talking about when he asked if it would be better to have them flush against the wall, unless they were talking about the mid-high frequency absorbers round the walls..

Still confused I'm afraid...

Geoff

Geoff,

> I'm still none the wiser when it comes to how to read the graph from even a single measurement. <

Can you at least get a graph at all? If so, post it here and I'll show you what to look for.

> It's almost as though my acoustic treatment is having little to no effect. <

I don't see how that's possible. It may be that you simply need more panels.

> I was going to try and post a screenshot from RPlusD there, but to be honest I don't think it would help as I don't understand what I'm doing with it <

If I could come over and help you in person I would gladly do so. In lieu of that I'm still happy to help with step by step instructions or whatever. Best is if you ask very specific "bite sized" questions. Then I can give very specific answers.

--Ethan

I'd be concerned about securing overhead traps to plaster lath. Might be fine, but if one fell on your
head it would hurt!
Sounds to me like you need more broudband "bass" corner traps. Do you have any more corners you can use?
If not, increase the thickness of what you have. The more volume, mass, and surface area you have the better.

Hi Ethan,

Thanks again for your on-going advice!!

(Edit: School Boy error with the graphics there on the first post, should be ok now).

Here are four screenshots. As you can see, result 1 and 2 are very different, or at least they seem that way to me. I don't know if I'm using the settings in the software correctly, but I'm opening the measurement file saved from the tests I performed, then I'm going to View | Frequency/Response | Bode/FFT. A tiny bump of all the readings shows in the bottom right hand corner of the graph.



I click anywhere on the graph and then get screenshots 1 and 2.





Then I go to View | Waterfall and it asks if I want to recalculate so I say yes and then this is what comes up.





How do these look to the trained eye?

Cheers

Geoff

For the waterfall graphs, I think you want to go from 20 to 800 hz or so.

Hi Nate,

Here's another attempt, this time selecting the frequencies you said (or as close as) by dragging a selection over the bode response (see screenshot)



Then calculating the waterfall. I've included 2 waterfalls as they're all quite different, but then that's because the mic was placed in a slightly different position in the room each time.





Does this look better?

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

You're 99 percent of the way there! Do this:

Under Gate Time click the lower button to switch from Small Gate Times to Large Gate Times. Then adjust the slider to be around 200 milliseconds. There's a "detent" at 227 Hz, and that's what I generally use. Then when you click inside the graph it will show a lower frequency range with more / better detail. And when you then switch to the waterfall display, that too will use the longer gate time and give more detail.

Then post those two graphs for response and ringing.

--Ethan

Hi Ethan,

How do these look?

Bode Response:


Waterfall:


Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

> How do these look? <

Like a real measurement of a real room.

Okay, so now where were we?

--Ethan

Hehe! This RPlusD software is "fully operational"!

I'm guessing the stuff happening closer to the front of the graph is the ringing in the room and what needs to be addressed. The question is, how? Do I need to start constructing more panels and block more wall/wall/ceiling corners and more wall/ceiling edges?

I have to be realistic here though as I've not really got much budget left for anything on the scale of what I've built already.

Cheers

Geoff

Geoff,

> I'm guessing the stuff happening closer to the front of the graph is the ringing in the room and what needs to be addressed. The question is, how? >

Now you know why we always say you can never have too much bass trapping.

> Do I need to start constructing more panels and block more wall/wall/ceiling corners and more wall/ceiling edges? <

Yes, yes, and yes again.

--Ethan

Hey Ethan,

I won a watch today. I managed to blag four PRG ProCorners from a friend of a friend. He has a studio and has just moved premises so had this acoustic treatment from an old editing suite sitting at the back of a cupboard. He very kindly donated them to my on-going studio project.

So I got them back to my studio and my first thought was to put them in the top edges of my room (not shown in pic as I don't have any mounting glue!)



However, I remembered what you said about corners and placed them behind the speakers in the forward part of my room.





Without doing any measurements yet with RPlusD, it seems the ringing bass notes are significantly lessened and the bass seems tighter across the whole octave. I'll need to test more and will hopefully set up a reading to produce a waterfall later today, but I'm sure this is the best place for my newly acquired foam corner traps.

I'm sure by treating the top edges and remaining corners it would be better all round, but in the meantime this seems to have solved my audible problems.

Any thoughts or suggestions as ever, greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

Geoff

> Any thoughts or suggestions <

I still see a lot of bare corners.

Ethan,

Your photo of your room on the "Build A Better Bass Trap Site" appears not to have the corners covered either, what's up with that?

Mark,

> Your photo of your room on the "Build A Better Bass Trap Site" appears not to have the corners covered either, what's up with that? <

There are traps in the corners. But with that type of trap, two are placed in each corner flat on the walls. The front left corner has a window so that's not treated. All other corners are, except some of the ceiling corners. This is a very large room, so it doesn't need the same kind of "extreme" trapping that smaller rooms need. I have also added 13 more traps since those photos were taken.

--Ethan

Interesting, Ethan what do you consider a "very large room" ? My studio is 5,800 cubic feet, 3,100 of that is with a slanted ceiling from 11.5' to 9.75'. The remainding volume is 2,700 cubic feet with a 7'-10" ceiling. Its all one volume however.

Right now I am installing 2" of 705FRK on top of 2" of 705 plain in all corners in the high area (3,100). I was going to let all these have the foil facing towards the room. I haven't addressed first reflection points yet. I do have all hard wood flooring, so I know there will be a lot of ceiling treatment. Thought I would see what the corners did first.

What do think about all of that?

Mark,

> what do you consider a "very large room" ? My studio is 5,800 cubic feet <

Yes, that's very large for a home studio, and is almost exactly the same size as mine.

> Right now I am installing 2" of 705FRK on top of 2" of 705 plain in all corners in the high area (3,100). I was going to let all these have the foil facing towards the room. <

That all sounds great. Because you have so many large areas of wall, once the corner trapping is done you could consider wood panel traps on those walls.

--Ethan

Thanks Ethan!!!

I will get this done in a week or so and see what the graphs look like, but more so what my ears say.

I just got on the forum, and found this post... Holly smokes dude... these are amazing pics, suggestions instructions and everything! I'm waiting for my fiber and fabric and getting on this quest hopefully this weekend, and this post is what I'm following.

I love the cutouts, but I don't know if I will have the patience to do them on 8 2'x4' bass traps and 22 more various other traps and absorbers... that's a lot of holes to cut

Bummer that EFT demo/software is windows only, they seem to indicate it may or may not work on a Mac with emulation software. I guess I have nothing to lose to try it out, either that or since I have an Intel-based Mac I can certainly install bootcamp and dual boot the puppy. I think I would greatly benefit from taking a reading before I do anything so I know precicely what ails me, and much like you, take my finger out of the air and look at my screen.

R

Take a look at this

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

It's a Java based application. Should run fine on the Mac. It's also free.

It's not as refined as ETF but it will get you started.

Bryan

Hi Robert,

Thankyou, I'm glad the post will help you. The drilling out the sides bit was the most time consuming and I think someone else suggested a milling machine rather than a jigsaw if you have access to one. The other thing is the holes you make with a jigsaw will not be as clean as those with a milling machine. You start off with best intentions, but once you're onto your third panel and you have another 40 or so to go, you start to take the quicker route to get the job finished before you reach retirement!! ;D

Cheers
Geoff

Geoff,

I have a plunging router which will do the same thing, I just need to get the right bit. Good idea thanks!

R

ps. too young for it to take that long

In fact is there a reason I can't make the wood as part of the decor of the panel? Like if I buy some oak and stain it, is there this much of a risk for reflection and audio anomalies?

R

That sounds like the powertool of champions!

I'm probably not the best person to ask about whether making the wood part of the decor is a good thing or not. The only thing I would say is that if you're going to cover it in fabric then getting it all looking neat and tidy might not be as easy. In other words, your rockwool is going to need something round it to get the fabric taught if i'm explaining myself well enough.

Geoff

Hehe, dunno about the powertool of champions but it's a real good router.

The way I was thinking of wrapping things up is:

staple the cloth in nice and tight around the inside of the frame first, the wook on the outside of the frame will be exposed and stained, then put the rigid fiberglass in and secure it with a 1/2"x1/2" piece of wood screwed into the side of the main frame. This way I get a nice tight fit, and the wood should push the fiberglass forward.

That said, I'm not sure it will work since the wood brace will likely push the sides of the fiberglass and the center of it might not be tight around the cloth enough.

I need to get the material to see what will work. I'm not married to the idea of exposing the wood, and looking at your designs everything looks real nice and clean... soooo :-\

R

That sounds as though it should work. The key to getting the fabric nice and tight is to use thousands of staples! Just as many as is neccesary to get the fabric really tight. It might be tricky though getting the fabric even for pushing the rockwool against it using braces at the back. Although I get where you're coming from and think this might just work. More experienced folks may want to comment on how they think this will work.

Please post pics when you get your panels constructed if possible, I'd be interested to see how you get on.

Cheers

Geoff

I sure will, Should I post them in this thread or another one?

If all goes as planned I should have the materials this week sometime, so I will surely start on it this weekend, weather permitting (I gotta cut all the wood outside of course, and routing is usually REALLY messy -- if I decided to rout out the sides)

R

I'd say you should start your own thread. That way, you'll be able to keep everything together in one place and it saves this thread becoming too long. Anyway, I think if you're going to put all that time and effort in, you deserve your own thread!

Good luck!

Geoff

Where did you get your fabric?

Hi,

I got my fabric at Custom Audio Designs. Although it wasn't cheap. I'm told you can get fabric that's just as effective for less elsewhere. As long as the sound can get through and it's 'open'.

Cheers

Geoff