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#1646697 - 02/26/04 11:00 PM So far, this room sucks...
offramp Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 5846
Loc: Golden, CO.
...even though I've had a couple of guys tell me it's ideal.

Flutter and slapback like you wouldn't believe.

Money is tight, but I can override a bit, 'cause I need to get this room going ASAP.

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I've upped my standards; now, up yours.

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#1646698 - 02/26/04 11:33 PM Re: So far, this room sucks...
Reverend Rhythm Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 01/10/03
Posts: 1181
Loc: Woodstock, GA
The link wouldn't work. You could just make the slap back work for you and record only Elvis classics.
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David

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#1646699 - 02/27/04 11:56 AM Re: So far, this room sucks...
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Ramp,

> Flutter and slapback like you wouldn't believe. <

I couldn't get your link to work either. But here's some general advice: Flutter echo is a mid/high frequency phenomenon, and so can be treated fairly easily using thin materials. As opposed to bass trapping that requires much more effective absorption. For a good overview of acoustic tratment see the Acoustics FAQ, second in the list on my Articles page:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html

--Ethan

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#1646700 - 02/27/04 01:26 PM Re: So far, this room sucks...
offramp Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 5846
Loc: Golden, CO.
Okay, fuck it. I've been trying to get the damned system to work for an hour or so now; for some reason, I can image-link to an avatar--no problem--but canNOT for the life of me get a @#$&*%^# image to load anywhere else, nor can I get my posts to retain their edits. This is just a small sample of the trouble I've been having getting this room going. Everything I've touched has turned brown, so far.
This is the shit that makes me want to live in a cabin deep in the mountains.

Ethan, I'm going to e-mail you the jpg; if you would be so kind as to insert it in a post here, I would be most grateful.
Thanks.

EDIT: great. Now I can't get an e-mail for Ethan, or a PM for anyone.
I'm SO tired of this shit.
_________________________
I've upped my standards; now, up yours.

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#1646701 - 02/27/04 01:56 PM Re: So far, this room sucks...
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Ramp,

Now, now, it's not that bad. \:D You can email me through my company's web site, linked under my name below. As soon as I get it I'll insert it into your message.

--Ethan

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#1646702 - 02/27/04 03:09 PM Re: So far, this room sucks...
Ethan Winer Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 8905
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
Okay, your photo is now in the first message.

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#1646703 - 02/27/04 03:55 PM Re: So far, this room sucks...
miroslav Offline
Cosmic Cowboy
10k Club

Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 14215
Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by offramp:
Flutter and slapback like you wouldn't believe.
A very cheap, easy, quick solution for flutter & slapback can be found at your local Home Depot.

For about $20 you can get a case (10 sheets) of 2' x 4' acoustic ceiling tiles (your basic drop ceiling stuff).

Using some adhesive/latex caulk (get the good stuff with 50 year warranty - $2.50/tube)...attach the sheets to your ceiling.

You don't need to cover the entire ceiling…leave some of the ceiling bare...you can just do a small "cloud"...or a bunch if individual sheets here-and-there.

If you want to pretty them up...get some L-shaped molding and trim out the tiles...either nailing in the molding...or you can use that same adhesive/caulk, but it's not quick-setting, so you have to hold the molding in place for awhile 'till it takes.

Do a few sheets...and then check the flutter/slapback...you can always add more sheets.

Oh...you can also remove the sheets and clean up the adhesive/caulk within the first hour or two with a sponge and water...though on sheetrock, it may pull the paper off).

Just put a nice 1/4" bead on the tile...do all around the edge about an 1.5" in...and then make a couple of X's in the middle...that's it...you won't need more than that if you use a good quality adhesive/caulk.

Oh…10 – 2’ x 4’ sheets go a long way…to do the whole case, you’ll need about 4-5 tubes of adhesive caulk…and then there’s the molding…wood/plastic.
But…for about $50 total you can solve your problem!

This only works on ceilings…since the acoustic tile is very brittle and you don’t want it on the walls…but, you will surprised how a few tiles can tame the whole room.
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"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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#1646704 - 02/27/04 11:16 PM Re: So far, this room sucks...
offramp Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 5846
Loc: Golden, CO.
slav: It's a rental. I'd like to get my deposit back someday.
Ceiling is that popcorn crap.

Further research (read: getting up off my ass and digging out Cooper's book) has revealed the culprit to likely be some nasty axials in the area above the windows.
Got the materials tonight, and my splendiferous wife will be firing up the sewing machine tomorrow while I use my private entrance at Home Despot :rolleyes: .
_________________________
I've upped my standards; now, up yours.

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#1646705 - 02/29/04 10:33 AM Re: So far, this room sucks...
Tim Mayock Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 195
Loc: Granby Ct.
offramp,
I would suggest using several shelves as a way to break up the flutter echo. Fill them up with anything. I doubt the ceiling is the worst offener I would start on the long walls, at head level.

The flutter echo is the first thing you hear as a problem, but I would live with a little flutter echo in a room over a room that beams in lower frequencies.

I suggest you to put something in the corners to treat the bass. Probably the cheapest thing to do is put 2 bags of insulation with the plastic seals still on them, one on top of the other, in any corner you can use.

I've gone to heavy with foam to break up flutter echo and found it caused a very uneven sound, it kills the flutter echo, but leaves you with a room that is very uneven.
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#1646706 - 02/29/04 03:53 PM Re: So far, this room sucks...
VerySoon Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 1041
Loc: LA LA Land
offramp...the ceiling isn't your problem. It's the walls....you're in too narrow a room and their parallel to each other...a prime candidate for slapback/standing waves. Also, if you hang a really heavy curtain in the back of the room, it'll act as a Helmholtz resonator. Then, stick a bookshelf in front of it...it'll disperse frequencies.

So much for this "acoustics" forum. :rolleyes:

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#1646707 - 02/29/04 10:16 PM Re: So far, this room sucks...
offramp Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 5846
Loc: Golden, CO.
Can't do a curtain on the back wall...there's a closet there, see? And with a closet, you have to have doors. I AM, however, hanging a set of very thick curtains on a rod above the closet doors, so that I can close the doors, and draw the curtains.
I've never felt the ceiling was the problem. so there is almost nothing done to it. So far, things are doing fine without ceiling treatment, although I'm considering a couple of clouds in the future.

Curious about the sarcasm at the end of your post...care to expound?
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I've upped my standards; now, up yours.

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#1646708 - 03/01/04 10:54 AM Re: So far, this room sucks...
miroslav Offline
Cosmic Cowboy
10k Club

Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 14215
Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
Actually...you will be surprised how much the ceiling is part of the equation.

Basically...you may just need to tame one wall or part of the ceiling.

Just a few tiles on any of the hard surfaces will help kill the flutter echo.

I had opposing hard walls...but, one wall had a bunch of pictures on it, so I couldn't really put any treatment there...and the opposite wall was mostly window...so that didn't help either...
...but I had this annoying flutter echo that was very obvious if I stood in between the walls and clapped my hands.

So...I look up and realized that the ceiling was also a hard surface (sheetrock).
I put up just (4) 2'x 4' acoustic tiles kinda' in a square, but left a hole in the middle...and...
..no more flutter echo, even though I didn't touch the walls.

But…I’m sure there are other solutions…just work with what you have…
…though I guess it’s a bit of a PITA when you are renting, and can’t do anything too drastic to the room. \:\(
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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#1646709 - 03/06/04 11:32 AM Re: So far, this room sucks...
Eganmedia Offline
Member

Registered: 03/06/04
Posts: 1
Loc: Vermont
I think the room looks decent. I'd put some gear and furniture in the room before trying to deal with the flutter echoes. You might find they disappear altogether when they are broken up by a room full of stuff. If they don't, there are plenty of suggestions here about how to deal with them. More importantly, the closet will make a great basstrap. Cover the opening with slats ( a la the Fran Manzella/ John Sayers model) and fill the cavity with fiberglass. If you can afford to eat up the space with trapping, you'll end up with a room that has the potential to have better bass response than most rooms its size.

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#1646710 - 03/07/04 07:10 PM Re: So far, this room sucks...
offramp Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 5846
Loc: Golden, CO.
Losing the closet is absolutely out of the question. We simply don't have that kind of luxury. In fact, it's a real luxury to try to keep the room from getting 'full of stuff', as my last place was TOO full of stuff, and really dampened the atmosphere.

Just today, I placed what I hope to be the last of the treatments; outside of quieting the G4 (which I would REALLY like to do with a new fan system, but have settled for an iso box for now), I should be ready to start some tracking tests in here this week.
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