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Semi-OT: How to tell fellow musicians something


Joe Muscara

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In our community of bands, one group is starting an originals project. They are working on an album, and have released one song from it already.

 

Last week at my piano lesson, my piano teacher was noodling a couple of tunes, and the first one had nearly the same melody as the above song. Turns out that he was playing a well-known instrumental jazz tune. The head of that tune matches the melody of the chorus of our friends' "original" tune.

 

We're not super close with the people in this new band. We know them from the scene and mutual friends. They're good people.

 

My question is, how would you approach this with them, or is it even worth it? I don't expect them to hit Billboard #1 with the song, but if this song's similarity does get noticed, there could be hassles. OTOH, maybe it's a common enough phrase that it's already "out there." My wife seems to remember hearing that same melody with words but hasn't been able to remember the song she's thinking of. If she's right, that's a third song with the same melody.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Joe said: My question is, how would you approach this with them, or is it even worth it?

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Play them the original tune and ask them if it sounds familiar. If it does then you might want to let them know that to pursue the tune as an original could bring problems.

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better to be safe with potential copyright infringement. I'd just go up to them and tell them what you found out, play the original if possible. If you do it in a helpful manner they will probably thank you, though obviously they'll be ticked off about the song itself. But you may have given them time enough to rework the song with a different melody at least.
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I'd let them deal with it themselves. They probably know, and if they don't, it's for them to figure out and decide. You just don't need that headache of pointing anything out about a friend's song given how sensitive people are about their creative works.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

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I'd let them deal with it themselves. They probably know, and if they don't, it's for them to figure out and decide. You just don't need that headache of pointing anything out about a friend's song given how sensitive people are about their creative works.

 

Totally agree.

 

Look who's birthday it is !! Happy birthday Bobby !!

 

Many years back a close friend of mine wrote an instrumental tune with the EXACT solo/intro bass line as 'Birdland". The melody and the rest of the tune were totally different so we all just let it slide. This guy's a great player, arranger and composer so just that little snippet didn't seem like a big deal--also it's not like we were performing it at the Hollywood Bowl or something.

On top of that it's a great tune, it's just a little bizarre when you hear that intro and then it's another tune.

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defintely mention it to the bandmember you know the best, or the bandmember that appears to have a level, laidback approach to things. But note that the tunes may just "sound" the same, they may not "be" the same.
"The Doomer allows the player to do things beyond which are possible without the accessory."
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Many years back a close friend of mine wrote an instrumental tune with the EXACT solo/intro bass line as 'Birdland". The melody and the rest of the tune were totally different so we all just let it slide.

 

I'm enough of a smartass to act uncomfortable and say, "Uh, that sounds JUST like something I wrote!" ...and then play "Birdland".

I make software noises.
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I'd let them deal with it themselves. They probably know, and if they don't, it's for them to figure out and decide. You just don't need that headache of pointing anything out about a friend's song given how sensitive people are about their creative works.

 

Totally agree.

 

Look who's birthday it is !! Happy birthday Bobby !!

 

Many years back a close friend of mine wrote an instrumental tune with the EXACT solo/intro bass line as 'Birdland". The melody and the rest of the tune were totally different so we all just let it slide. This guy's a great player, arranger and composer so just that little snippet didn't seem like a big deal--also it's not like we were performing it at the Hollywood Bowl or something.

On top of that it's a great tune, it's just a little bizarre when you hear that intro and then it's another tune.

 

I know a guy who wrote a fantastic funk-rock tune with the identical bass line to "Chameleon". If you don't really know the guys, who cares. Happy birthday Bobby!

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The Verve were all too happy to pay Allen Klein for "BitterSweet Symphony." Only one band member was affected and they kept all the rest of the royalties from their albums and CDs and made some decent tour money.

 

Elastica's rip of Wire's "Three Girl Rhumba" on 'Connection' and Wire settled for $0 dollars.

 

Ask Bill Gates if its worth the risk of subsequent litigation.

 

That's a horrible attitude but there's such a small difference between homage and rip off. And yes, poor artists.....and great artists.......

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As mentioned, it would be easy to let them hear the song that sounds like their original. They may or may not already be aware of it.

 

Otherwise, many songs share similar harmonic and/or melodic foundation. I doubt the song in question is subject to copyright infringement. :cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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I once wrote a song as a gift to a friend who was getting married. Another friend heard it, invited me to his place, and played a Bill Evans album for me... Bill was playing a lovely Brasilian (I think) song called "Minha", which was very, very similar to mine.

Now, I happened to have that same album, only I had not listened to it in many years... but evidently, the memory of that song had persisted in my inner ear.

What I did was to go back to the pentagram, changing a few notes and/or their octave or direction, so the song retained its slow-evolving character, but the melody wasn't similar at all anymore... you could recognize a similarity in mood, but technically, they were now totally different songs. :)

 

 

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This happens all the time in my composition class. A student will play something for me and I'll (innocently) say "that sounds just like...." and crush their little compositional aspirations.

I think that Marino is probably spot-on; these kids hear something at some point and regurgitate it later. This happens even more often with chord progressions.

"Look what I wrote!" (I, IV, V, IV, V, IV, I...) "Uh, that's 'Summer Nights' from 'Grease.'" Or "check out this bridge! It goes to the iii, but makes it major and then goes around the cycle until it hits the V of the original key!" "yes, Billy, we call those 'Rhythm Changes'. Gershwin wrote them."

(I'm not really that much of a snot about musical plagiarism)

Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine.

 

HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Chorus, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, History of Rock, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama.

 

 

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...I"m kind of at a loss as to why anyone would give a Hoot-in-Hell about what some competitor band does "creatively" that doesn't involve your band.

 

Are they taking gigs or something ?

 

I guess if its a big deal to play "gotcha", have at it...

 

 

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...I"m kind of at a loss as to why anyone would give a Hoot-in-Hell about what some competitor band does "creatively" that doesn't involve your band.

 

Are they taking gigs or something ?

 

I guess if its a big deal to play "gotcha", have at it...

 

 

Professional courtesy.

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"Competitor band"? :rolleyes:

 

If you can't tell my feelings, attitude and the scene here from my initial post, I don't know what to say to you.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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If you speak the same language, you tend to speak a lot of the same cliches..... which not the same as plagiarism, of course.

But sometimes it's a fine line - if you hear a nice musical phrase or chord progression and it becomes part of your vocabulary, it may well surface one day long after you forgot where you learned it.

For example, I don't THINK George Harrison was consciously ripping off anyone with "My Sweet Lord". Unfortunately, he's not around to ask. Not that he would probably want to talk about it.......

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I remember reading that George Harrison said that he conceded that he had heard He's So Fine prior to writing My Sweet Lord, and therefore, his subconscious might have used the sounds he put to the words of My Sweet Lord. Terming it "subconscious plagiarism", the judge found that the case should be set for a trial for the amount damages. George Harrison never admitted nor any of the co-writers accused him of willful plagiarism. According to this site KLONK

 

In December, 1969, George was playing in Copenhagen, Denmark, with Delaney and Bonnie and Friends. Billy Preston was part of that group. Harrison told the court that the song that became "My Sweet Lord" was conceived when he slipped away from a press conference and began "vamping" some guitar chords, fitting the chords to the words "Hallelujah" and "Hare Krishna." Later, members of the band joined in and lyrics were developed.

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If I had written a song that was strikingly similar in some way to a pre-existing song, I'd want to know and I'd appreciate it if Joe pointed it out to me. It's not just a question of copyright infringement. The similarity, unintentional though it may be, nonetheless sets up potentially unwanted associations with the pre-existing song, and invites potential disparagement from others who would claim that I "stole" my musical idea from someone else.

 

And if it really gets boring around here I'll tell a few tales about Selle v. Gibb (the Chicago Bee Gees "How Deep Is Your Love" infringement trial in 1984), like how the girlfriends would traipse in and out of the courtroom in what I suspect the jury considered wildly inappropriate courtroom attire .... :o

 

Larry.

 

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If I had written a song that was strikingly similar in some way to a pre-existing song, I'd want to know and I'd appreciate it if Joe pointed it out to me. It's not just a question of copyright infringement. The similarity, unintentional though it may be, nonetheless sets up potentially unwanted associations with the pre-existing song, and invites potential disparagement from others who would claim that I "stole" my musical idea from someone else.

 

And if it really gets boring around here I'll tell a few tales about Selle v. Gibb (the Chicago Bee Gees "How Deep Is Your Love" infringement trial in 1984), like how the girlfriends would traipse in and out of the courtroom in what I suspect the jury considered wildly inappropriate courtroom attire .... :o

 

Larry.

 

As I am always interested in Legal aspects of music, I think trial photos of the girlfriends would be perfectly appropriate. For scholarship reasons, of course. ;)

Steve Force,

Durham, North Carolina

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My Professional Websites

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Given that the vast majority of original (using that term loosely) songs never achieve the sort of notoriety that might occasion legal trouble, I would think this should be pretty low on the list of things to worry about. Echoing some of the comments above, I think unless you know the person well and have a rappore, your concern for their well being might be misinterpreted as something less generous.

 

Seems like a quiet day around here. Some pop star girlfriend stories might be appreciated.

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