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Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500465 08/20/05 01:29 AM
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DIAMOND DUST Offline OP
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I know this is guitar land, but I think he was the best soloist on any instrument. I'll post some stuff if your interested. \:\)

GP Island
Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500466 08/20/05 02:03 AM
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Compact Diss Offline
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When I was young it was Coltrane who brought the music of Jazz to me.





Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500467 08/20/05 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Compact Diss:
When I was young it was Coltrane who brought the music of Jazz to me.
As a musician & a human being \:\) , his music overwhelms me man. He was a conduit from the other side. Just like Stevie Ray Vaughn & Hendrix. The flame can only burn 'that' bright for so long. Thank god for the recordings.

This is for you Diss my man.

11.20.61 TRANE
John Coltrane
Falkonerteatret, Copenhagen 1961-11-20

1. intro by Norman Granz
2. Delilah
3. Every Time We Say Goodbye
4. Impressions
5. Naima
6. My Favourite Things (false start)
7. My Favourite Things

John Coltrane: tenor & soprano sax
Eric Dolphy: alto sax, bass clarinet, flute
McCoy Tyner: piano
Reggie Workman: bass
Elvin Jones: drums


FM > reels [1-track 3¼ ips, probably 2nd generation copy] > Revox A-77 > Soundblaster AWE-64 > CDR > EAC > FLAC
68 min

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500468 08/20/05 03:54 AM
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'Trane was one of the handfull of musicians of the 20th century who took music to new levels. Music was never the same after.

Years ago I tried to play the saxaphone and I had a really cool teacher who for 10 bucks would come to my place and was supposed to give me a one hour lesson. I guess I was his only adult student and someone who already had a bit of music going. He would always end up staying for 3 hours just talking about music.

He was the person who introduced me to John Coltrane. At the time I didn't "get" it. He said most people don't at first but and remembered it took him a few years of music school till one night it hit him like a brick. He said it was the singular most important musical moment in his life.

Well I kept my Coltrane records and would occasionally listen to them. I would frequently read about how important he was but still wasn't sold. Well finally on night (I had had a bit of scotch) I had the epiphany and really got into it. I have enjoyed it ever since.

Recently I think I have figured out I like McCoy Tyners rhythm comping as much as 'Trane's horn. The piano is what kind of keeps it all together.

This is really a pretty decent recording Diamond Dust. It must have been done professionally. I have been meaning to ask where do you find all this wonderfull stuff that you post here? Is it part of a personal collection or just random things you find on the internet?

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500469 08/20/05 04:34 AM
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I love John Coltrane's music.

For those that don't get it, all I can say is keep listening and you'll eventually get it. I loved his stuff with Miles when I was first hearing jazz and I eventually got "Om" and didn't get it at all.

After a while I got My Favorite Things and that record I "got". I didn't get A Love Supreme at first either. Ballads I "got" right away. Eventually I finally "got" A Love Supreme and it was like an awakening, I got much more than just that recording when I got it. The recording seemed to me to be as much like a prayer as it was music.

Now I have a lot of his music and I'm really taken by all of it. It is like for the stuff that is tough to "get", just go back more to the begining and then move foward towards it. Listening to his later music is a bit like walking in at the end of a movie and expecting to get it. You have to hear his music to at least some extent as a single work in and of itself that is best understood in the order he tackled it.

McCoy Tyner is also a formidable genius, as was Elvin Jones-- all time greats the likes of which are on the order of Bird and Diz, Clifford Brown and Sonny Rollins. But with the other line ups that John had around him, the genius and the music was always there.

I think that part of that involved the very serious and heavy nature of what he was trying to express. It is like he had a message and his language was music. The greatness we experience when we hear it is due to the greatness of the message. I don't laugh when I hear his music, and I'd rather listen deeply to it. That goes for just about everything he did, but especially later.

We are guitarists, but anyone that improvizes should try to get a feel for the styles of: Bird, Sonny Rollins, Monk, and Coltrane. That list could be bigger and I feel bad leaving Joe Henderson off a list with Coltrane and Rollins on it, and I feel bad leaving Clifford Brown off a list that has Sonny Rollins on it.


check out some comedy I've done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gku2sdSGJKc&feature=plcp
http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/
My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion.
Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500470 08/20/05 04:51 AM
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DIAMOND DUST Offline OP
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gruupi:
'Trane was one of the handfull of musicians of the 20th century who took music to new levels. Music was never the same after.

Years ago I tried to play the saxaphone and I had a really cool teacher who for 10 bucks would come to my place and was supposed to give me a one hour lesson. I guess I was his only adult student and someone who already had a bit of music going. He would always end up staying for 3 hours just talking about music.

He was the person who introduced me to John Coltrane. At the time I didn't "get" it. He said most people don't at first but and remembered it took him a few years of music school till one night it hit him like a brick. He said it was the singular most important musical moment in his life.

Well I kept my Coltrane records and would occasionally listen to them. I would frequently read about how important he was but still wasn't sold. Well finally on night (I had had a bit of scotch) I had the epiphany and really got into it. I have enjoyed it ever since.

Recently I think I have figured out I like McCoy Tyners rhythm comping as much as 'Trane's horn. The piano is what kind of keeps it all together.

This is really a pretty decent recording Diamond Dust. It must have been done professionally. I have been meaning to ask where do you find all this wonderfull stuff that you post here? Is it part of a personal collection or just random things you find on the internet?
I have about 500 live recordings. There's about 5 or 6 sites that have about 75 percent of the stuff I post here. Do you dig MILES????? \:\)

Check this out... miles 69\' part 1
PART 2

October 27, 1969 (11 items; TT = 88:38)
Teatro Sistina, Rome (Italy)
Radio Televisione Italian (RAI) radio broadcast
Miles Davis Quintet
Miles Davis (tpt); Wayne Shorter (ss, ts); Chick Corea (el-p, wood fl); Dave Holland (b, el-b); Jack DeJohnette (d)

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500471 08/20/05 04:56 AM
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DIAMOND DUST Offline OP
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Quote:
Originally posted by musicalhair:
I love John Coltrane's music.

For those that don't get it, all I can say is keep listening and you'll eventually get it. I loved his stuff with Miles when I was first hearing jazz and I eventually got "Om" and didn't get it at all.

After a while I got My Favorite Things and that record I "got". I didn't get A Love Supreme at first either. Ballads I "got" right away. Eventually I finally "got" A Love Supreme and it was like an awakening, I got much more than just that recording when I got it. The recording seemed to me to be as much like a prayer as it was music.

Now I have a lot of his music and I'm really taken by all of it. It is like for the stuff that is tough to "get", just go back more to the begining and then move foward towards it. Listening to his later music is a bit like walking in at the end of a movie and expecting to get it. You have to hear his music to at least some extent as a single work in and of itself that is best understood in the order he tackled it.

McCoy Tyner is also a formidable genius, as was Elvin Jones-- all time greats the likes of which are on the order of Bird and Diz, Clifford Brown and Sonny Rollins. But with the other line ups that John had around him, the genius and the music was always there.

I think that part of that involved the very serious and heavy nature of what he was trying to express. It is like he had a message and his language was music. The greatness we experience when we hear it is due to the greatness of the message. I don't laugh when I hear his music, and I'd rather listen deeply to it. That goes for just about everything he did, but especially later.

We are guitarists, but anyone that improvizes should try to get a feel for the styles of: Bird, Sonny Rollins, Monk, and Coltrane. That list could be bigger and I feel bad leaving Joe Henderson off a list with Coltrane and Rollins on it, and I feel bad leaving Clifford Brown off a list that has Sonny Rollins on it.
It takes a while to understand just what you are hearing. \:D He was a genius of the highest order. I don't think he was born that way. I think he just loved music so much that he was able to reach the other side. Breathtaking!!! \:\(

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500472 08/20/05 09:50 AM
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Many thanks DD! I really enjoyed the Hendrix gig you posted too, great stuff.

I just know Caevan will be downloading this one!

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500473 08/20/05 10:25 AM
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Thanks again DD!!

Trane has influenced so many players over the years that after listening to all of his disciples & immitators, casual listeners can tend to forget how revolutionary his playing was. Like everyone else, it took me a while to "get" his stuff, especially his more outside things. I'm still not sure I "get" it all, but I'm loving the journey.

I don't remember if I read this somewhere or if someone told me this analogy to Picasso:

There's a great quote from Picasso about his own abstract style that goes something like this:

"When I was young, I could paint like DaVinci. It's taken me decades to learn to draw like a child again"

I think that's what Coltrane was doing, searching for that pureness in his music, learning to play like a child again.

Paul

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500474 08/20/05 03:08 PM
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Hahhah! I see I'm late to this party, and that my actions have been accurately predicted by Teahead! (Well, that was an easy call to make here, though!) ;\)

Ooooooooooohhh, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, and McCoy Tyner are like a regal triumvirate to me. If I can ever seem to have conveyed a little Miles and 'Trane into my "lead" and "fill" work, and some Tyner into my harmonic structures, as much as Beck (guess which one, I'll guarantee you're wrong), Page, SRV, Hendrix, Wes, Les, Pass, etc. etc. etc., then I'll have gotten somewhere on the guitar!

Some may think I'm full $4!t for saying so, but the first time I listened to John Coltrane, I was immediately siezed by it, I "got it" right off the bat. Nothing against any other of a long list of incredible and excellent Jazz Musicians of high caliber, but 'Trane has been 'my' sax player, over any others of any style. His playing just goes right to me with a perfect fit that transcends genres.

I think that, in a way, 'Trane was spraying out long lines of wild notes to hang them in the air, he was playing harmony on a monophonic intrument. Think of many of his lines as smeared, blurred arpeggiated streams. Flights of birds of many colors.

Easier said, than done, on a guitar. That is, being able to play fast, long lines is only part of the key. I'm certainly not up to it! Yet.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, again: John Coltrane is the greatest lead-guitar player ever.

I just got that September issue of Guitar Player last night, the one with Eric Johnson on the cover, and there are TWO articles on Coltrane for guitar. One a larger, more in-depth aricle, the other a short but excellent lesson by Mike Stern on playing "Giant Steps" with double-stop diads on the 3rd and 4h strings only. Too cool; I'm gonna spend some time with both of those.

(By the way, I'm glad to see mention of Brownie here in this thread- good call, musicalhair! While Miles and Louis are my heart's favorites, Clifford Brown had a gift and a voice all his own and it's a true shame if ever there was one that his time was cut short; had he lived longer, I think his name would be more widely known. A friend turned me on to him a few years back, and I am remiss for not having picked up any discs of his music yet... )


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500475 08/20/05 03:36 PM
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I like the Picasso analogy. Forgive me as I take this thread way off course for a moment.

When I took an Art History class the class clearly didn't get what Picasso was doing-- maybe especially me. One time she set up a slide of a painting of a little girl's First Holy Communion (a big event in the life of a young Catholic), and the class was knocked out by the stunning realism in the painting and the use of light and everything. It really was like the picture-perfect example of what we had learned about the "progress" made by artists over the centuries. We were all shocked when we found out that it was an early Picasso.

His art skills came developed early and fast and he was probably very aware of his "greatness" early on. He had a death in the family early on, either that sister in the painting or a brother or someone. From what I understand, as the child was dying Picasso had the nerve to try to strike a deal with God and offer his paintings for God the rest of his life if the child survived. The child died and Picasso sought to tear down and rebell with his art.

I'd say a nice "compare/contrast" essay could be done about Picasso and Coltrane. Both had shockingly formidible skills in their art and in the conventional styles of the day. Both push boundries that seemed to some to betray their skills ("Free" jazz was very much looked down upon but guys that came out of the Bebop style, but Trane being a giant in that style embraced Free jazz). Both have easily identifiable stylistic periods that changed over time. By contrast Picasso was rebelling against everything where as Coltrane seemed to be seeking a higher communion with God. It is as if Picasso was running away from his painting of The Holy Communion and Coltrane was running to it and through it. I don't know if Coltrane had a "rival" like Picasso had Matisse-- someone that spurred him on, someone whose genius was recognized by Coltrane as rivaling his the way Picasso saw Matisse. I kind of doubt that kind of rivalry especially in a music that is so communal like Jazz where the greats share so much similar history-- Coltrane and Rollins both played for Monk.

Miles fist asked Rollins to join his band but Rollins was still "woodshedding" and then he turned to Coltrane. I sometimes wonder what if Trane played more with Monk-- as I hear a Monk influence in Rollins a lot, and if Rollins had been in Miles' band instead (not that these things were simultaneous, I don't know if they were or weren't).

DD, you are amazing and I've checked out some of what you've been offering here and Thanks. I've not listened to this yet-- I'm about to-- but I'm sure it will be great.

I listened to some of the Neil Young, man I love Neil Young.

Officer, It's OK. My hands are in the air and I'm stepping away from the soapbox ....

Another thing about Picasso is that he was a rival with Matisse. Many of their paintings can be seen as responses to each others work. Matisse being older and more of a "gentleman" than Picasso, and IMHO just not as skilled and more conservative in his vision,


check out some comedy I've done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gku2sdSGJKc&feature=plcp
http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/
My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion.
Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500476 08/20/05 04:07 PM
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Your reference to rivalry or competition in art is a good one. I have been told here that there should be no competition or rivalry in music and that music is not a competition, race of contest. Of coarse it is, in any given market no matter what the style of music or art exists, competition is there. Getting back to music specifically, for gigging musicians competition always exists. As non artistic or grass roots it may sound, grabbing a guitar playing job IS competitive (ever been to an open audition?) The competition is there and IT SHOULD BE! it pushes the craft.

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500477 08/20/05 05:53 PM
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Exactly, Ellwood.

I think the difference between the competition between say Matisse and Picasso and say amongst musicians is that music is often a team sport. The competition between Segovia and everyone else when he was younger was an ugly thing and perhaps as bad for the guitar as Segovia's efforts were good for the guitar. When we think of the Jazz greats we see a flow of ideas that came from working together. The growth of the art through team work exceeded the growth that came out of competition. Ponce went back to Europe to study more counterpoint in his forties. He wasn't shut out in this effort, and he learned and grew and his music, and we, became that much richer.

When we think of competition, there are two kinds: running a race and boxing. We should not treat our competition as boxing where we want to hurt the other guy or cheat the other guy (which in some ways Segovia did to his competition) if at all possible. We should just work on getting better in the various ways that we can-- which sometimes includes "being a nice guy" in music almost as much as it does being able to play and fit in with others playing.

In Zen there is a "koan" that goes like this: What do you do if you see you master coming down the path? The answer is "I'll will kill him." Hardly the answer that you'd expect from peaceful zen monks, but the meanings of "master" and "kill" are not what they woud appear and perhaps the point is that we see our teachers as guides and our "rivals" as in a sense guides and not our masters. If we are free and we have working towards artistic or spiritual freedom then we have no master; and to acknowledge a "master" is to acknowledge being dominated and not being free. In that sense we must "kill" the master through our pursuit of freedom and equality. I hope the FBI understands that before they consider knocking down my door for typing this.


check out some comedy I've done:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gku2sdSGJKc&feature=plcp
http://louhasspoken.tumblr.com/
My Unitarian Jihad Name: Brother Broadsword of Enlightened Compassion.
Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500478 08/20/05 07:38 PM
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I had a Coltrane Quartet rec [Sun Ship, a double disc] as a kid. I must confess that other than knowing he was running a bunch of scales over the frenetics of Tyner & Jones, most of it went straight over my head, except for a track that built on Jimmy Garrison's slow delineation of a minor 3rd.
[Later I heard the same theme used by Dr John's horn section on the great Sun, Moon & Herbs disc]

Coltrane was a great musician but the most impressive thing, even more than his facility or concepts---& there are those who think, fairly legitimately for their preferences, that he devolved a little in what turned out to be his final years--was that he didn't stop; he kept changing. He was not complacent.

I find it interesting that what I consider his single most distinctive trait [hyper-fast, fractured scalar reconfigurations---& the simplicity of that desciption isn't meant dismissively---that were also the basis of many players, like Oscar Peterson] was highly touted for it's influences on some rock players [the Byrds/ "8 Miles High" & Cream] but, to me, never really carried forward in that area.
Every time I hear Roger McGuinn play his "Coltrane-influenced" solo on "8 Miles High" I notice he repeats is verbatim, never a variation.
His influence on jazzers is less clear to me, more working in a similar vein already.

I think for young guitarists the arrival of Jimi Henrdix put the adventurism of all other musicians in the shade for a long while.
Hard for JC to get his due there in 1967.

Airbody here hip to the Church of John Coltrane?
It's a legit African Orthodox Church in San Fransisco.
saintjohncoltrane

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500479 08/21/05 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ellwood:
Your reference to rivalry or competition in art is a good one. I have been told here that there should be no competition or rivalry in music and that music is not a competition, race of contest. Of coarse it is, in any given market no matter what the style of music or art exists, competition is there. Getting back to music specifically, for gigging musicians competition always exists. As non artistic or grass roots it may sound, grabbing a guitar playing job IS competitive (ever been to an open audition?) The competition is there and IT SHOULD BE! it pushes the craft.
The big problem is that in competition, the reward is external - praise, prize money, etc. In an artistic setting, the rewards are internal - generated by the sense of self.


Read Musical Hair's reply carefully. Rivalry or competition is not really the word for striving to be a better musician.
Competition :

1. The act of competing, as for profit or a prize; rivalry.

In my opinion, a "profit or prize" in music is a business factor, which is totally unrelated to musical quality. A lot of very successful music is at best technically limited, and at worst technically flawed. Technicality is the only quantifiable characteristic in music (Is it in tune? Is it rhythmically precise? Does it use complex tonality?) However, technical excellence is only one (and arguably not even the most important) of many factors which affect the overall impact of music.

2. A test of skill or ability; a contest: a skating competition.

By skating competition, I hope the dictionary writer means speed skating. Figure skating shares a lot of qualities with music in that it requires both technical ability and artistic sense. Again, to test a skill or ability requires technical absolutes - who is fastest from point A to point B, for instance. Again, quantifiable technical facts are only one of many factors which affect the overall impact of music.

3. Rivalry between two or more businesses striving for the same customer or market.

In a straight ahead business environment, if Business A and Business B both sell photocopy machines, any given indvidual customer will likely only buy copy machines from A or B, because their needs will be met by either seller, and the competition is on quantifiable factors like price, convenience, and durability. With music, while Player A and Player B offer the same service, any given customer can easily choose both because the purchase is dependent on intangible factors. Ever pay too much money to mention on a recordng by a favorite artist that is only available as an import at some inconvenient location? Have any records on the shelf that don't move you to listen to them anymore? Were you thinking about that possibility (limited product lifespan) when you bought it?

You might consider this to parallel your open audition, but let's look closer. While an individual may feel lost about not getting a particular gig, there are plenty of opportunities. This is not a musical factor, or even really quantifiable. Guys get kicked out of bands for non-musical factors like personality, and go on to great success with their next band. Band #1 still has the opportunity to succeed without a particular individual, and both of these bands may even play the same venue on consecutive days. There is no winner or loser in the overall scheme, just different paths.


4. A competitor: The competition has cornered the market.

As I elaborated above in point 3, there is no realistic way to "corner the market" in music. Even when Michael Jackson's Thriller was the most fantastically successful album of all time, many other acts were perfectly successful in their own right at the same time, in the same general market (pop music) or in wildly different markets (heavy metal, jazz, etc.).

5. Ecology The simultaneous demand by two or more organisms for limited environmental resources, such as nutrients, living space, or light.

This is point #4 expressed in nature. However, in music there is plenty of environment for all manner of musicians to thrive. The level of thriving may depend on a certain competitiveness, but it is not the exclusion of all others' success. There are no extinct species of musicians - drum machines did not kill all the drummers.

--------------------------------------

Compare a demolition derby to a stock car race. In a demolition derby, there is only one winner, the last car running. In order to win, all of the other competitors must fail. In a stock car race, every entrant clearly wants to win, and there is only one "winner", but the other cars can have a measure of success in their own right, even though they are not the first car to the finish line that particular day, and the next race between the same cars is likely to have a different result. In certain race situations, it makes sense for one car to help another: letting someone pass for strategic reasons; merely following closely, not attempting to pass because the risk of crashing is too great; making a pit stop at the same time in order to assist each other merging back into traffic; etc.

That is the closest I can analogize any true competition with a musical environment.

Ladies and Gentlemen, start your instruments. \:D

P.S. Sorry to ramble on so long, but this is important to understand.

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500480 08/21/05 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DIAMOND DUST:
I have about 500 live recordings. There's about 5 or 6 sites that have about 75 percent of the stuff I post here. Do you dig MILES????? \:\)

Check this out... miles 69\' part 1
PART 2

October 27, 1969 (11 items; TT = 88:38)
Teatro Sistina, Rome (Italy)
Radio Televisione Italian (RAI) radio broadcast
Miles Davis Quintet
Miles Davis (tpt); Wayne Shorter (ss, ts); Chick Corea (el-p, wood fl); Dave Holland (b, el-b); Jack DeJohnette (d)
Thanks for that one

I'm not sure I really understand Trane yet. If listening to most music is like taking a shower, then listening to Coltrane is like standing under Niagara Falls!

I really appreciate Miles though, especially all of his periods. Birth of the Cool, through the modal stuff, his work with Gil Evans, the electric period leading to Silent Way, Bitches Brew and Jack Johnson, even his later period when a lot of people slagged him for playing pop songs. You can learn as much from Miles' use of silence as you can from any other player's use of notes.

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500481 08/21/05 02:51 AM
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DIAMOND DUST Offline OP
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Quote:
Originally posted by Billster:
Quote:
Originally posted by DIAMOND DUST:
I have about 500 live recordings. There's about 5 or 6 sites that have about 75 percent of the stuff I post here. Do you dig MILES????? \:\)

Check this out... miles 69\' part 1
PART 2

October 27, 1969 (11 items; TT = 88:38)
Teatro Sistina, Rome (Italy)
Radio Televisione Italian (RAI) radio broadcast
Miles Davis Quintet
Miles Davis (tpt); Wayne Shorter (ss, ts); Chick Corea (el-p, wood fl); Dave Holland (b, el-b); Jack DeJohnette (d)
Thanks for that one

I'm not sure I really understand Trane yet. If listening to most music is like taking a shower, then listening to Coltrane is like standing under Niagara Falls!

I really appreciate Miles though, especially all of his periods. Birth of the Cool, through the modal stuff, his work with Gil Evans, the electric period leading to Silent Way, Bitches Brew and Jack Johnson, even his later period when a lot of people slagged him for playing pop songs. You can learn as much from Miles' use of silence as you can from any other player's use of notes.
Amen!

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500482 08/21/05 03:24 AM
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This is a very cool story from the Lowell Sun and a definite buy!

From Chelmsford chat, a jazz classic
Meeting at 2000 record show led to Gillespie-Parker gem
By DAVID PERRY, Sun Staff



What's being hailed by The New York Times as “the most stunning jazz discovery in a decade -- the Rosetta Stone of bebop” -- might have never surfaced unless its producer made a fateful stop in Chelmsford five years ago.

It was a conversation at a record show in the hall of the Chelmsford Elks Lodge in 2000 that led to the release of Dizzy Gillespie - Charlie Parker: Town Hall, New York City, June 22, 1945, which has jazz critics and fans alike raving. The disc, on the small Uptown Records label, was released in June, 60 years after it was recorded.

Until Dr. Robert Sunenblick obtained the acetate recordings from a man he met in Chelmsford, no one knew East Coast live recordings of the quintet fronted by Gillespie (”Diz”) and Parker (”Bird”) existed, or were even believed to exist.

“There's all kinds of live Charlie Parker recordings out there, and most of them are horrible,” said Jack Woker, who runs Stereo Jack's in Cambridge, a haven for jazz and R&B collectors.
“But this one is from when these guys were still new on the scene and playing live. And the sound quality is great. The thing is, nobody knew it even existed.”

Sunenblick, a 54-year-old physician, runs the Uptown label when he's not seeing patients in Montreal.

“Sometimes,” he writes in the disc's extensive liner notes, “the greatest finds involve just luck.”

--

Until it was destroyed by a four-alarm fire in November 2003, the Chelmsford Elks was for several years host to record conventions four or five times a year. The show's promoter, a rotund mix of grump and gregarious known as Big Ed, charged dozens of dealers rent for tables. Record hounds paid $3 to enter. Dealers stacked tables high with crates of old and new vinyl records and compact discs, and, beneath plaques and mounted deer and elk heads, customers scrounged atop and beneath tables for finds.

(The show continues at the Radisson in Chelmsford under new management, and its next gathering is Sept. 11.)

Some customers are “pickers,” record hawks who scour vinyl shows, flea markets and yard sales for gems, then sell them to dealers who have the time and energy to seek market value online or through their stores.

Don Pingree, 53, of Northwood, N.H., frequents the Chelmsford shows as a buyer. A veteran of 13 years in the record market, he's known as a whiz at recognizing gems and plucking them from dealers' tables. He'll cart them up to his antique store, RS Butler's Trading Company along Northwood's Antique Alley, or sell to buyers worldwide on eBay.

He calls the Gillespie-Parker recordings “pretty amazing. You won't find much out there as rare as that. And since this was done during the war, it was even more amazing. Recording took a back seat to what was going on with the war.”

Recently, The New York Times trumpeted the new disc as “the birth of bebop, captured on disc,” and told the unlikely history of its arrival from junk shop to record shop.

In the fall of 2000, while visiting his daughter in Boston, Sunenblick drove to Chelmsford for the record show. He knew the record hound's world, in which hunters have “that psycho-killer look,” he told The Times. “I know it well; I get it myself sometimes.”

In Chelmsford, he met the picker, a man from Milton who continues to insist on anonymity.

A couple of weeks later, the picker called Sunenblick to say he had found a 12-inch acetate -- a recording prototype -- and played it over the phone. Sunenblick heard the show's narrator, Sidney “Symphony Sid” Torin, and realized it was an East Coast performance. Though the acetate was marked only “Town Hall,” Sunenblick eventually tracked down the show's date.

But not before he urged the picker to return to the site of his find to search for more.

He did, and in returning to the store near Stamford, Conn., discovered six more acetates from the same performance. They had been professionally engineered backstage at Town Hall, the New York concert site. They were amazingly well preserved in “quality we could only have dreamed about,” notes remastering engineer Ted Kendall in the CD's booklet.

But it's the performances that are slaying fans. The quintet was still in its infancy, and as time progressed, also sax man Parker and trumpeter Gillespie especially would become legendary jazz icons. They are accompanied by the great drummer Max Roach, tenor sax player Don Byas, bassist Curley Russell and pianist Al Haig.

They indeed birthed bebop, which took jazz from dance pop to artistic form. And on the Town Hall disc, Parker and Gillespie are at their quicksilver best, trading solos and blowing in unison. The quintet was not long-lived, and this is a glimpse of its members able to stretch out and flourish live. The disc's six songs run 40 riveting minutes.

“I've been to people's houses who have had music on tapes and acetates that've never been issued,” says Pingree, the New Hampshire record dealer. “The problem is, you don't even know what to offer. The stuff's priceless.”

Pingree says he “must have been” in Chelmsford that day in 2000, and may at some point have even shopped the Connecticut antique store where the acetates were unearthed.

“I may have flipped right by the damn things.”

And there would be nothing worse than that, the deepest lament of the collector.





Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500483 08/21/05 02:00 PM
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Caevan O'Shite Offline
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That's FABULOUS news, 'Diss! Thanks for posting that!

I just wish that recordings of some of the times that Charlie Christian played with those guys ealry-on would surface like that, as well...


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500484 08/22/05 02:00 PM
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Kramer Ferrington III. Offline
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Actually, I'm not much into JOHN Coltrane.

But I really like the records made by his WIFE, Alice Coltrane, who plays piano and harp (as in "concert harp", not a mouth organ).

She has a 1970(?) album called "Journey in Satchidananda", which IMHO is well worth a listen.

Re: Any COLTRANE fans????? #1500485 08/22/05 09:28 PM
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Robman2 Offline
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Yes...and Wes...


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