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#2623408 - 08/28/14 10:31 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
southboundsuarez Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/14
Posts: 29
Loc: Corona, California
Hey Myles,
Yes, more specifically my questions regarding tubes...
Faced with a growing collection of used and unpaired unmatched tubes,,, How to go about grading and matching them?
1: Is there any visiable physical characteristics to determine the condition or health of a tube?
2: Having a selection of several same output tubes, how can you determine which ones may be closest matching?
3: Can you match by simply installing and measuring cathode current?
4: Would it be pratical to build a dynamic benchtop test amplifier jig to match tubes? What features would you incorporate?
5: Tube testing equipment? Any particular test equipment you recommend or equipment vendors you find attractive? Price Points?
6: Rare/exotic/expensive tubes... Theoretically, if a tube has a broken or compromised envelope, could the interior components be saved/reused/recycled if someone could blow a new envelope and had a vacuum that sucked enough to draw the multiple "TOR" of proper magnitude for the immense vacuum required? (This assumes that the tube was not in service or subject to any current when exposed to air) Could the getters be reflashed?
_________________________
I am just practicing....

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GP Island
#2623416 - 08/28/14 11:58 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
haywired2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 175
Originally Posted By: myles_rose
Originally Posted By: haywired2
Originally Posted By: myles_rose
Scott,

If in Garden Grove it may very well be true. Like I said, I always supply paperwork.

There are many things you can do to a Peavey Classic 30. They are .... well .... classics wink


Sorry for a late response, but I had some family stuff I had to attend to.

Regarding the things you can do to a Classic 30, is that something I should email you about? I've heard of a Blue Mod, but don't know anything about it.


Just leave it alone. They are fine stock and not worth doing expensive upgrades as the return is negligible.



twothumbs
_________________________
Les Paul Studio Deluxe, '74 Guild S100, '64 Strat, JCM 900 Combo, Peavey Classic 30 1x12, Peavey Classic 30 Head, CBG

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#2623465 - 08/29/14 09:22 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: southboundsuarez]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: southboundsuarez
Hey Myles,
Yes, more specifically my questions regarding tubes...
Faced with a growing collection of used and unpaired unmatched tubes,,, How to go about grading and matching them?
1: Is there any visiable physical characteristics to determine the condition or health of a tube? - no

2: Having a selection of several same output tubes, how can you determine which ones may be closest matching? - MEASURE THEM ON A TESTER.

3: Can you match by simply installing and measuring cathode current? - YES. PLATE CURRENT AT IDLE IN AN AMP IS A GREAT TESTER.

4: Would it be pratical to build a dynamic benchtop test amplifier jig to match tubes? What features would you incorporate? - THERE ARE SOME GREAT TESTERS OUT THERE. I WOULD FIND NO REASON TO BUILD ONE YOURSELF UNLESS YOU WANT TO DO IT FOR FUN OF A BUILDING PROJECT.

5: Tube testing equipment? Any particular test equipment you recommend or equipment vendors you find attractive? Price Points? - I THINK THE MAXI MATCHER UNITS ARE A GOOD DEAL, TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW AND ARE RELIABLE.

6: Rare/exotic/expensive tubes... Theoretically, if a tube has a broken or compromised envelope, could the interior components be saved/reused/recycled if someone could blow a new envelope and had a vacuum that sucked enough to draw the multiple "TOR" of proper magnitude for the immense vacuum required? (This assumes that the tube was not in service or subject to any current when exposed to air) Could the getters be reflashed? - THROW IT AWAY.



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#2623555 - 08/29/14 03:29 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Hey, Myles!

I'd love to know what you think of these two products from Orange (links posted below), particularly the DIVO OV4- and, do you think it (this DIVO OV4) could be adapted for use with a fixed-bias 4xEL84 amp by socket-adapters or re-wiring with the required sockets? If it's half what it's cracked up to be, I think I'd really like that in my (fixed bias) Carvin Vintage 33...

Thanks!

Orange DIVO OV4

Originally Posted By: Orange amps dot com
DIVO (dee vo) OV4 automatically adjusts the bias of your power valves to ensure their full potential is realised. It monitors your amp’s performance and isolates faulty valves during failures, running at half power until the valves can be changed. Experiment with different valves [tubes] in each socket without modifying the amp. DIVO even increases the lifespan of your power valves! Don’t go dead on stage ever again…DIVO makes that possible. Visit OrangeAmps.com for more information.

Built into an aluminium case about the size of a small paperback, the OV4 module comes with both a bracket and strong industrial Velcro fixings

Once set, the OV4 continually micro-adjusts the bias current for each individual valve, keeping the amp running at peak efficiency. It also means that you can run any combination of standard octal power valve you like, although pairs, such as 6L6s and EL34s are more useful.

With no audio present, the OV4 can automatically drop the bias current to a lower setting to reduce wear and tear, instantly returning to its higher level when audio is detected.

In the event of a valve fault, an algorithm shuts off the affected pair automatically and remembers which valves are at fault, displaying them on warning LEDs, as well as in the software, while also keeping a record of how many hours use the amp has had, both with and without audio.

The jack socket connects to a standard footswitch letting you switch the amp from full power (all four valves on) to half power, moreover the ‘share the wear’ function remembers which pair of valves were switched off the last time and alternates them, keeping wear as even as possible, although if you use two different pairs of valves, such as 6L6s and EL34s, you can use this as a tone option, swapping from one pair to the other.




Orange DIVO VT1000 Valve Tester



Originally Posted By: Orange amps dot com
The compact and extremely easy to use VT1000 is a fully automatic valve tester, which performs a wide range of tests quickly and accurately. The benefits of using the VT1000 are clear and wide reaching; users can quickly and simply match and test valves, plus receive a reliable health check as to whether their valves are good, bad or worn.

Orange Amps developed the world’s first fully automatic, portable, digital valve tester, the VT1000, to make it easy to test amp valves. Until now testing valves with little or no knowledge of valve theory was difficult, expensive and often unreliable. This new product will test all popular power and pre-amp valves. Its ease of use will appeal to all valve users whether amateur, professional or in the music retail trade.

The unit has one octal and two nine pin valve sockets for different valve types; simply insert the valve to be tested into the correct socket, select the valve type from the list on the unit and press ‘OK’ to test. The results are displayed clearly and concisely using LEDs and will test for a wide range of fault conditions, which could easily cause damage to other components. The simplicity of operation belies what is going on ‘inside the box’, where a CPU controlled testing system is in operation, allowing full control over all inter-electrode switching and measurement operations.
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2623569 - 08/29/14 04:30 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
The first item from my POV is pointless, not necessary if you properly maintain your amp, and is just one more point of failure.

The second item ... the tube tester .... I wrote a piece on this unit in a facebook note after I was asked about it by many folks:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/myles-rose/orange-tube-tester/10151556511311711

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#2623623 - 08/30/14 12:58 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: myles_rose
The first item from my POV is pointless, not necessary if you properly maintain your amp, and is just one more point of failure.

The second item ... the tube tester .... I wrote a piece on this unit in a facebook note after I was asked about it by many folks:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/myles-rose/orange-tube-tester/10151556511311711


Thank you, once again, for your experienced, insightful, frank and candid advice, Myles!

One thing that I wondered about concerning the DIVO OV4 was, when it switches an "amp from full power (all four valves on) to half power" (two valves on) and back, how does it manage to correspondingly switch the OT/speaker impedance to match? confused
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2624438 - 09/02/14 12:18 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Say, Myles... I'd love to hear your suggestions for either good bulk cable and quality, compact 90° angle 1/4" plugs (SOLDERED- NOT "Solderless"!), or pre-packaged kits of the same, for wiring-up a pedal-board with cut-to-length cable and space-saving 90° angle plugs. (I have power-supply cables, etc. all covered.)

Not only cable and plugs, but where to buy 'em.

I'm searchin' around, but you might have good suggestions I might overlook.

I'd like to find a good balance between appreciable, DURABLE quality and bang-for-the-buck price.

I have a mess of OK quality 6" and 12" molded patch cables that have served me well for more than a good six and a half years now, but they're finally starting to fail one after another. I have to replace them, and I may as well do this right!

Thanks!
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2624529 - 09/02/14 04:30 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
I like the stuff from Brian at http://www.colossalcable.com

Maybe see if he will sell some of his components. If not, I like http://www.neutrik.us/ and Belden cable if you are making your own.

You can get just about anything from these folks - https://www.tubesandmore.com when it comes to parts.

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#2624589 - 09/02/14 07:41 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Thanks, Myles! cool
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2624743 - 09/03/14 10:53 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
You are welcome

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#2632789 - 10/10/14 12:38 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Hey again again, Myles. cool

My Carvin Vintage 33 has been acting weird; randomly going down and up in volume, or cutting out altogether- pilot light still lit, no crackles or pops or hum or anything, just random changes in volume or nothing at all...

Not cables or anything else; swapped cables, removed all pedals from the input and effects-loop, so one way or another, it's within the amp. (Will double-check to be sure of whether or not it's the guitar later, but I don't think it is.)

What are the things you'd suspect?

Thanks again, again!
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2632815 - 10/10/14 03:57 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
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Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
Could be many things. Bad resistor, socket, tube. Time for the amp to see a pros bench.

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#2634216 - 10/17/14 02:52 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: myles_rose
Could be many things. Bad resistor, socket, tube. Time for the amp to see a pros bench.


Yeah... I've been figuring that... I'll probably take it over to Voodoo Amps in Lansing.
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2634695 - 10/21/14 10:39 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: myles_rose
Could be many things. Bad resistor, socket, tube. Time for the amp to see a pros bench.


Yeah... I've been figuring that... I'll probably take it over to Voodoo Amps in Lansing.


Update: I've found that this is limited to the "Soak" Channel ("Lead"/overdrive/distortion channel); Channel 1, the "Clean/"Rhythm" channel, is unaffected. This seems like GOOD news to me, as it seems to narrow it down to smaller, less expensive faults than might be...

Another update: At the word "Carvin" (on the phone), "Voodoo" said, "NO. I won't work on any Carvin amps again, never, never, never, ever, ever, ever. EVER." I was hoping not to have to ship this off anywhere, and find a good, qualified, experienced tech within reasonable driving-distance for drop-off and pick-up... facepalm rolleyes
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2634769 - 10/21/14 02:13 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
I'd talk to Mike at www.kcanostubes.com That is sort of in your area.

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#2634817 - 10/21/14 06:31 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: myles_rose
I'd talk to Mike at www.kcanostubes.com That is sort of in your area.


Thanks, Myles!
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2634916 - 10/22/14 09:50 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
You are welcome. He's a great tech.

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#2650240 - 12/28/14 06:18 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
CEB Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 12157
My old 65 Twin is being rebuilt. I have not used it since 92 when I started playing Boogie. My amp guy say it will be better than new.

I am considering tubing it with Boogie tubes because Boogie maintains that their tubes are in spec. My hope is that once biased to the Boogie tubes I won't have to worry about biasing the amp when changing tubes in the future.

Is anyone else has tubes that are consistently in spec?

Also the speakers feel mushy. I didn't dare start the amp without it being on a variac. It has been in storage since 92. I am guessing I will want new speakers. I am a fan of the Bakersfield sound and I am a modern country player. Any speaker recommendations? I have had good luck with Eminence drivers in my Leslies.

Thanks.

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#2650284 - 12/28/14 09:28 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: CEB]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: CEB
My old 65 Twin is being rebuilt. I have not used it since 92 when I started playing Boogie. My amp guy say it will be better than new.

I am considering tubing it with Boogie tubes because Boogie maintains that their tubes are in spec. My hope is that once biased to the Boogie tubes I won't have to worry about biasing the amp when changing tubes in the future.

Is anyone else has tubes that are consistently in spec?

Also the speakers feel mushy. I didn't dare start the amp without it being on a variac. It has been in storage since 92. I am guessing I will want new speakers. I am a fan of the Bakersfield sound and I am a modern country player. Any speaker recommendations? I have had good luck with Eminence drivers in my Leslies.

Thanks.


Today's tube consistency is worse than ever. I wrote this piece a number of years ago and the Mesa info is still quite valid. Mesa does a good job of matching so just stay with blue or whites and you will be fine. Those are spec tubes. You can also use green and gray but they are a little softer.

But ..... you can also develop a relationship with a good tube vendor and tell him you want proper spec tubes and have them and you save the plate current data for future replacement tubes. This is more accurate and allows a wider selection of tubes.

Vendors that do this for me that I recommend are:

www.kcanostubes.com (Mike)
www.dougstubes.com (Doug)

My matching document is at http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/Rating.html

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#2650292 - 12/28/14 10:22 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
CEB Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 12157
Thanks a lot Myles!

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#2650293 - 12/28/14 10:25 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: CEB]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
You are quite welcome. Have a great 2015.

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#2650354 - 12/28/14 04:27 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: myles_rose
..... you can also develop a relationship with a good tube vendor and tell him you want proper spec tubes and have them and you save the plate current data for future replacement tubes. This is more accurate and allows a wider selection of tubes.

Vendors that do this for me that I recommend are:

www.kcanostubes.com (Mike)
www.dougstubes.com (Doug)



I have done business with both Doug at Doug's Tubes and Mike at KCA NOS Tubes and have been very happy with them. Great recommendations!
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2650365 - 12/28/14 06:31 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
CEB Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 12157
Thanks. I figured the Boogie's tubes had to be consistent. Randall used to say they refused a lot of tubes. Boogie does not include bias adjustments on their amps so I figured their tubes needed to be some what consistent. But they have to buy from the same suppliers as everyone else. Also all the new components will be much lower tolerance than the original stock Fender parts may be that helps. I'm just a guitar player. I don't know this stuff really works.

I kind of anxious see how this rebuild goes. I liked the old amp back in the day. When I was 25 I just thought I had to have a Boogie and quit using the Twin.

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#2699734 - 06/25/15 02:29 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: CEB]
Bluesape Moderator Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 11688
Loc: Ottawa
Happy Birthday Myles!



Edited by Bluesape (06/25/15 02:04 PM)
_________________________
Never a DUH! moment! Well, almost never. OK, OK! Sometimes never!

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#2699919 - 06/25/15 11:36 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Bluesape]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: Bluesape
Happy Birthday Myles!


Indeed! Happy Birthday, and many, many more!
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2699993 - 06/25/15 03:50 PM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
Thank you very much for the b'day wishes.

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#2700203 - 06/26/15 10:47 AM Re: Quiet Here Lately [Re: myles_rose]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24359
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: myles_rose
Thank you very much for the b'day wishes.


__ Soitenly!

__
_________________________
Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2700304 - 06/26/15 04:20 PM Re: Feel free to ask Myles [Re: myles_rose]
LoupGarou Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 2
Hello Myles,
What an invaluable service this thread is! Thanks in advance.
I have a Marshall 4203 Artist with an excessively hot power transformer. The original PT cooked and has been replaced with a Mojotone version of the original Drake. The old PT began to run very hot for a while before it failed. The new PT has run hotter than the old one did before it started getting really hot, so I suspect the old PT did not simply fail - something is maybe drawing more current?

The amp has been modded with test points and pots to set bias. I recently retubed with EH EL34s and was unable to open the pots up far enough to get the 43mV which the modder recommended for the GT EL34s that were in the amp when the PT was replaced - I got 32mV. You reference a method of setting bias with a scope and crossover notch method; I've never heard of this method. Is this method described somewhere in this thread? My tech is an EE with multiple scopes sitting around his home studio and he would probably drool at the prospect of finding a new use for his gear.

The new PT ran hot with the old GTs installed, and still does with the new EHs. The tubes themselves run reasonably cool, as power tubes go.

I'm not extremely knowledgeable about tube amps so I have listened to those who supposedly are, and I have been told:
1. PTs in Marshall 3203/4203 models fail more often than typical in other Marshall models
2. Weak filter cap can cause the PT to run hot.
3. Phase splitter can cause the PT to run hot. (New Mullard 12AX7 on the way)
Do those suggestions sound reasonable?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

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#2700498 - 06/27/15 03:13 PM Re: Feel free to ask Myles [Re: LoupGarou]
myles_rose Moderator Offline
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Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 5036
Loc: Los Angeles CA, UNITED STATES
Chris

1. PTs in Marshall 3203/4203 models fail more often than typical in other Marshall models

Marshalls have weak transformers as a generality in many models, but failure was generally due to running them flat out, not a design issue. Look at the cheap JCM 2000 TSL / DSL transformers for the 100 watt versions and compare the amount of iron to some other 100 watt amps. Heck, the 28 watt Producer has three times the iron. Mercury Magnetics make stuff that will run forever.

2. Weak filter cap can cause the PT to run hot.

Nonsense.

3. Phase splitter can cause the PT to run hot. (New Mullard 12AX7 on the way)

Nonsense.

Do those suggestions sound reasonable?

If you don't run flat out, don't use an attenuator so you can run flat out, and have the proper impedance cab match you will have no more issues than would be found on most amps.

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#2700632 - 06/28/15 08:08 AM Re: Feel free to ask Myles [Re: myles_rose]
LoupGarou Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 2
Hi Myles,
Thanks for answers. No, I don't run the amp flat out these days, and rarely have in the past, so I don't think I'm taxing the amp in any way.

Could you describe the "crossover - notch" bias setting method?

Thanks,
Chris

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