practicing with a metronome

[Mass Effect]

When practicing scales I notice that it is much easier for me if I set the metronome at a faster tempo and play fewer notes between beats.

 

Playing two notes per beat with the dial set around 3/4 maximum speed, I am able to play faster and with more precision than when I cut the dial back to 12 o'clock and try to fit 4 notes per beat.

 

With the slower tempo/more notes per beat method, I stumble often before I can complete a single run through any particular scale and the length that the notes ring out is uneven. Doesn't sound musical at all the way it does with the other method I mentioned.

 

Is this typical and something I just need to put in the hours neccessary to become competent at this portion of my playing?

 

Sorry to prattle on but this problem really gets me frustrated and usually I end up moving on to practice something else to avoid the irritation of it.

 

Any advice on this or just practicing with a metronome in general would be appreciated.

[Dr. Ellwood]

Don't avoid the irriation of it! It's the irritation of it is where the progress comes from! You will work your way through it eventually, I find that going over and over things I already know to be of no use moving to the next plateau in your playing. Metronome work is very necessary however I would suggest tempering it with some work over backing tracks to stimulate your ear in a whole band playing mental exercise. Both ways are the key.

[Scott Fraser]

It's all about becoming able to unconsciously feel the pulse at all times. Wynton Marsalis once told a music class they had to get to the point that they could start snapping their fingers together, & you could walk out of the room, go down to the street, walk around the block & come back into that room & be exactly in time with everybody else. That's where you need to be, so keep on practicing.

 

Scott Fraser

[Big Red 67]

Playing slowly can be very hard. It is easier to hear little mistakes when playing slowly. At the same time, it is good to hear the little mistakes. Makes it easier to improve. I find that if I am struggling to make something sound "just right" at full speed it help to slow it down to half speed. Uncomfortable, sure. Every bump and lump in my playing shows up. This came up at practice this week. I was asked to relearn a bass part without the open string pedal that I was using. It was very hard to do at first. I ask that everyone give me a minute of quiet to work it out. Played it slow a few times then started bringing up the tempo. As I did everyone fell in with me and even though I dumped a few notes here and there I have started to bring the new part up to the level that I was playing the old part at. Now I can even though in the vibrato that I was using in the old part which I couldn't do at all when I first relearned the part. So slow is very important.

[teleman65]

I had a teacher who made me tap a pencil in time to a metronome. If I could hear the metronome I was out of time. It's the timing that is important. See Scott Fraser's above post re: Wynton Marsalis.

Once you get that internal clock happening you'll have no problems however you set your metronome.

[Billster]

A good idea is to get to the point where you can set the metronome at 1/2 the tempo and feel the metronome clicks as the 2 & 4 of the count.

 

What you need is a sense of time, not to slavishly follow the click. By setting the metronome to click fast, hitting every note you wish to play, you will never develop a feel for the subdivisions of time that make up a real groove.

[Mass Effect]

Thanks for the suggestions everybody. I'll keep all of your comments in mind while I practice. It's helped a great deal already in that I'm approaching it with the right mindset now.

[Eric Iverson]

Originally posted by Mass Effect:

When practicing scales I notice that it is much easier for me if I set the metronome at a faster tempo and play fewer notes between beats.

 

Playing two notes per beat with the dial set around 3/4 maximum speed, I am able to play faster and with more precision than when I cut the dial back to 12 o'clock and try to fit 4 notes per beat.

 

With the slower tempo/more notes per beat method, I stumble often before I can complete a single run through any particular scale and the length that the notes ring out is uneven. Doesn't sound musical at all the way it does with the other method I mentioned.

 

Is this typical and something I just need to put in the hours neccessary to become competent at this portion of my playing?

 

Sorry to prattle on but this problem really gets me frustrated and usually I end up moving on to practice something else to avoid the irritation of it.

 

Any advice on this or just practicing with a metronome in general would be appreciated.

I may have to try that (playing fewer notes at a faster tempo) - thanks. I find practicing at 40-50 bpm a form of torture sometimes!

 

I had a sadistic bandleader who sometimes had us do tunes at molasses slow tempos - very hard to play rhythm to!

[Mass Effect]

I set it around 160 - 170 bpm and it seems like all of a sudden my picking hand is like a machine and my touch on the fretboard is perfect. Very light touch with no poorly fretted notes.

 

I wish my knowledge of music were better so I'd know the correct terminology to describe what I'm trying to say. Where a real shredder would play more notes at that tempo, I was just fitting in a couple of them.

 

Nothing wrong with that and I'll still do it for fun sometimes but I wasn't learning to "feel the pulse" like Scott Fraser said.

 

I imagine if I keep at it, I'll get the same results at a slower tempo by addressing this weakness in my timing and skill.

 

I think the faster pace left less chance for the picking hand and fretting hand to become out of sync. That was giving me a false sense of accomplishment.

[Big Red 67]

Originally posted by Mass Effect:

I set it around 160 - 170 bpm and it seems like all of a sudden my picking hand is like a machine and my touch on the fretboard is perfect. Very light touch with no poorly fretted notes.

 

I wish my knowledge of music were better so I'd know the correct terminology to describe what I'm trying to say. Where a real shredder would play more notes at that tempo, I was just fitting in a couple of them.

 

Nothing wrong with that and I'll still do it for fun sometimes but I wasn't learning to "feel the pulse" like Scott Fraser said.

 

I imagine if I keep at it, I'll get the same results at a slower tempo by addressing this weakness in my timing and skill.

 

I think the faster pace left less chance for the picking hand and fretting hand to become out of sync. That was giving me a false sense of accomplishment.

Because the thing is filling in the subdivisions of the measure your brain doesn't have to.

[Mass Effect]

Because the thing is filling in the subdivisions of the measure your brain doesn't have to.

Exactly. There is no feel needed with the high bpm/low # of notes thing I was doing.

 

The trick is getting the notes to ring evenly and at the right time. With that extra time between clicks it's hard for a hack like me to make it sound good.

 

I'm already making progress though. Last night and again tonight I'm working on it. I'm around 84-88 bpm and it's sounding pretty good. I'll get there one day...

[Big Red 67]

Still working at a slow metronome pace is good to. Even if it is torture.

[ii7-V7]

I find practicing at 40-50 bpm a form of torture sometimes!

Thats where your practice is most effective.

 

I make my students (or used to when I still taught) play staccato, whole notes at 40 bpm. Like someone said, if you hear the metronome than you aren't exactly on time. This is harder the slower you go, but critical!

[Mass Effect]

Would you explain for me what playing staccato whole notes is? I'd practice that if I knew what you mean. Like tremolo picking?

[ii7-V7]

Originally posted by Mass Effect:

Would you explain for me what playing staccato whole notes is? I'd practice that if I knew what you mean. Like tremolo picking?

Sorry that was the best way that I could think of to explain it online. I can see that it was a poor choice of words. You basically play just one short choppy note, or tap your finger, or clap, etc. right on the beat. Just like Teleman65 said, but at the slowest settings. Its not very difficult once you've done it...but it tends to get begginers and this in how I make them start to appreciate the use of the metronome.

[ii7-V7]

Oops....Double Post

[Mass Effect]

Originally posted by ii7-V7:

Originally posted by Mass Effect:

Would you explain for me what playing staccato whole notes is? I'd practice that if I knew what you mean. Like tremolo picking?

Sorry that was the best way that I could think of to explain it online. I can see that it was a poor choice of words. You basically play just one short choppy note, or tap your finger, or clap, etc. right on the beat. Just like Teleman65 said, but at the slowest settings. Its not very difficult once you've done it...but it tends to get begginers and this in how I make them start to appreciate the use of the metronome.

It's not a poor choice of words at all just because I'm ignorant about alot of musical terms. I see what you mean now. This teaches you to to anticipate the next click/beat? Helps develop sense of timing?

[A String]

Just to elaborate, playing staccato, is a manner of playing, where the notes are separated. The separation comes from drastically shortening the notes, almost "Clipping them off".

 

I like to think of Orchestral music, where the violins are making that "plinking" sound by plucking the strings and then quickly (almost immediately) muting them.

 

When you play a staccato note, think "really short"!

[UnderTheGroove_dup2]

I always suggest that my students start off with the metronome at a slow tempo and practice by playing quarter notes, 8th notes, 8th note triplets and then 16th notes. Then I have them change the tempo and do it all again. Once that is comfortable, you can do the click on 2 and 4 only. Another great exercise is to set up a click or drum loop play a measure and then alternate back and forth with a measure of silence. This is an easier exercise than walking around the block to meet up with Wynton, but it's the same concept.

[Mass Effect]

Could you explain to me what quarter notes,8th notes,8th note triplets and 16th notes are?

[Hardtail]

Originally posted by Mass Effect:

Could you explain to me what quarter notes,8th notes,8th note triplets and 16th notes are?

You've participated in this forum for over a year; probably played guitar for longer than that and also tell us about the merits of certain guitar equipment, mainly the Classic 30 amp.

 

And yet you don't know the difference between a quarter note and an 8th note? Are you serious or are you pulling my leg?

 

If the former, get this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Method-Guitar-Volumes-Complete/dp/0876390114/sr=8-1/qid=1166467496/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9257618-2707229?ie=UTF8&s=books

[Mass Effect]

Nope, not pulling your leg. Your profile of me is spot on.

 

I have Books 1 & 2 by Hal Leonard but it has been difficult for me to stay focused on the text long enough to understand what it teaches.

 

I hate to leave such good company but I gotta get ready for work.

 

Have a great night!

[J J]

whats with the games, mass effect?

[ii7-V7]

Mass Effect, at some point you have to take responsibility for your musical education. You are showing strides by taking the metronome seriously, but you should learn the most basic names for notes, pitches, and rhythm's. Get a book and read it, or get a teacher.

 

By the way all of the terms used were meant to convey the duration of a note. Whole being four beats, half being two, and with each denomination (i.e. Quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc.) the length of the note is cut in half.

 

Chad

[Scott Fraser]

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And learning it with these mathematically related terms is a lot easier than the older method, (apparently still in use in Great Britain) of referring to note durations as crotchets, quavers, semiquavers, demisemiquavers & hemidemisemiquavers.

 

Scott Fraser

[Scott Fraser]

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Pizzicato. Actually you don't have to mute pizz notes on a violin because there is practically no sustain.

 

Scott Fraser

[Mass Effect]

Originally posted by J J:

whats with the games, mass effect?

Just something I'm into. You a gamer?

[Mass Effect]

Originally posted by ii7-V7:

Mass Effect, at some point you have to take responsibility for your musical education. You are showing strides by taking the metronome seriously, but you should learn the most basic names for notes, pitches, and rhythm's. Get a book and read it, or get a teacher.

 

By the way all of the terms used were meant to convey the duration of a note. Whole being four beats, half being two, and with each denomination (i.e. Quarter, eighth, sixteenth, etc.) the length of the note is cut in half.

 

Chad

Thanks for explaining that for me. I approach the guitar as a hobby. I don't intend to try and become a guitar god like Hardtail.

 

I must say I'm a bit puzzled by some of the sorry attitudes on display in this thread when I was just asking questions out of curiosity.

[Hardtail]

Originally posted by Mass Effect:

I must say I'm a bit puzzled by some of the sorry attitudes on display in this thread when I was just asking questions out of curiosity.

Well, my answer to that is:

 

 

Boo freaking hoo! You got some good advice here including what I've provided. If you want to blubber about it because I'm trying to kick you in the arse to stop yapping and start playing, that's your problem.

 

But, you didn't listen to any of these people last year who tried to give you advice:

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/ubb/get_topic/f/19/t/013747.html#000000

 

Why should it be any different this year? I'm assuming you didn't end up taking lessons with that teacher after all.

 

Playing a musical instrument decently requires time and work. If you want it... go get it. That simple. Now stop being a poser and do the work!

[Mass Effect]

I'm not blubbering about anything. I'm just pointing out the fact that you're a goddamn asshole.