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I have an old Roland A50 controller. Well, it's not really that old, it's just over 10 years, I think. Anyway, I quite like this thing, and there is nothing available to replace it with, not without losing some features that are very important to me. So I'll keep using it.

The only thing that bothers me about it is there's a faint but audible hum when it's on. If I put my ear close to it, the hum seems to start at the power supply, and end at the LCD. So, I'm not exactly sure where the hum emanates from. Also, the LCD backlight is worn out, I'd like to get that replaced too.

I've called Roland support to ask if it can be fixed. They said they could replace the LCD, but weren't sure whether that would fix the humming or not.

So, I have a couple of questions -

Anyone here use an A50 or A80, and if so, does yours hum the same as mine?

Any A50 or A80 owners ever get an LCD replaced, and if so, was it a lot brighter afterwards?

Anyone ever get a hum like this fixed, and if so, how?

Thanks

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Yea, I have a Roland A-80 midi controller and it makes a constant humming noise as well. I believe my noise comes from the power supply. ...I just checked it as I have it set up in my livingroom. Yep, the noise comes from the power supply. I don't believe I had this noise when I lived in the US (115VAC) ... but I could have (I moved here 8 years ago), but I have it now (Europe 230VAC). My A-80 is about 13 years old and I bought it new.

I read something about this some time ago and did a quick google search just now. Obviously this is a known 'problem'; I just live with it and I do not hear it on a job, just in my livingroom.

Take a look here: http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Roland/A-80-01.html

We are not alone. \:\)

I wouldn't worry about that hum and I imagine replacing that screen might be a do-it-yourself job if you can get your hands on the part(s). I wouldn't mind being kept up-to-date with this ... my screen is still good, but who knows when it will go.

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i bought my A-50 back in 1991 new and it does have a faint humming noise, but so does my korg wavestation. i remember a programmer i used to work with said that all rolands that have large lcd screens have this problem especially with the D-70.

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I had an A-80 for over ten years, and yeah, the LCD screen hummed. With hard drive noise and such it wasn't a big deal, but it was quite annoying on its own.

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I have an A-50, and itīs got that humming sound too. I just try not to think about it.
/J nas

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I had an A-80. The screen hummed. Now I dont. I replaced it with the MC-3000. Other then the lack of poly after touch (it is absolutely painful to use the aftertouch on the A-80 -even with the thumb), this thing blows away every other weighted controller out there. The touch is almost identical to the A-80 with a little more damping at the bottom of the throw which produces much less clunking noise.The UI is incredibly intuitive. 8 outputs, 8 zones, 8 sliders, 8 pedal inputs. It has a mouse pad which works perfect for my set up. And no hum.
Its also incredibly ugly. How can you resist.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Markyboard:
I had an A-80. The screen hummed. Now I dont. I replaced it with the MC-3000. Other then the lack of poly after touch (it is absolutely painful to use the aftertouch on the A-80 -even with the thumb), this thing blows away every other weighted controller out there. The touch is almost identical to the A-80 with a little more damping at the bottom of the throw which produces much less clunking noise.The UI is incredibly intuitive. 8 outputs, 8 zones, 8 sliders, 8 pedal inputs. It has a mouse pad which works perfect for my set up. And no hum.
Its also incredibly ugly. How can you resist.
Yes, but does it behave like an A50 (A80)? A50 has certain features: for instance, when you change patches (on the A50), it doesn't send the patch changes until you are no longer holding down any notes. This avoids the problem of sounds getting abruptly cut off in modules.

Another thing it does, is when you change patches (on the A50), it sends the current value of most of your controllers to the modules. Not many controllers do this; I find it indispensible for performing live - it puts me in total control of my modules.

Can the MC3000 do these things?

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Yes, but does it behave like an A50 (A80)? A50 has certain features: for instance, when you change patches (on the A50), it doesn't send the patch changes until you are no longer holding down any notes. This avoids the problem of sounds getting abruptly cut off in modules.
Yes it does not switch until the notes are released

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Another thing it does, is when you change patches (on the A50), it sends the current value of most of your controllers to the modules. Not many controllers do this; I find it indispensible for performing live - it puts me in total control of my modules.
No and this was another thing that drove me nuts about the A-80. Here's a simple example. I'm playing my CX-3 with a slider set to control volume on my CX-3. I have it set about half way(64). I switch over to play my Andromeda and move the same slider for full volume (127). When I switch back to the CX-3 the volume is where I left it - half way. This is "total control of my modules". This works for any controller. I do not want the controller to transmit its value when switching patches as the current slider positions are not applicable to the next module being selected. Now if I wanted that slider to control both my CX-3 and Andromeda I can set up another zone and set the same slider to control the CX-3 simultaneously with the Andromeda. However in most cases this would not work for me.

There are also 8 buttons on the MC-3000 - one for turning on/off each zone. So instead of changing patches when switching between modules, I have a generic patch with each zone assigned to a different module. I then hit a single button to turn on/off any module. This makes it real easy to layer synths.

The A-80 sends out the same data on all 4 outputs. If I recall you can only enable/disable the outputs. On the MC-3000 you assign and output (1of 8) to each zone and only that zones data goes out on that port.

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Is this hum a low pitch (like 60Hz) or a high pitch squeal?

I am assuming "hum" describes the 60Hz power noise. Or 50Hz for England.

Electricity does not produce noise. A transducer does. I have a device that hummed, also. The main power transformer was mounted loosely and vibrated, producing the noise. I wondered wht it was louder when the display lights were on. Well, lights draw more electricity which makes a stronger electro-magnetic field in the power transformer. A stronger field rocked the thing harder!

I tightened down the transformer and put a shim of high impact plastic under a corner that wouldn't tighten down. No further hum.

Just a thought.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Markyboard:
No and this was another thing that drove me nuts about the A-80. Here's a simple example. I'm playing my CX-3 with a slider set to control volume on my CX-3. I have it set about half way(64). I switch over to play my Andromeda and move the same slider for full volume (127). When I switch back to the CX-3 the volume is where I left it - half way. This is "total control of my modules". This works for any controller. I do not want the controller to transmit its value when switching patches as the current slider positions are not applicable to the next module being selected. Now if I wanted that slider to control both my CX-3 and Andromeda I can set up another zone and set the same slider to control the CX-3 simultaneously with the Andromeda. However in most cases this would not work for me.
There are pros and cons to any approach, to be sure. I didn't really get the point of your example, since you were talking about synths with their own keyboards, rather than modules.

But it doesn't really matter. I think the important thing is, you may want to set up your controller to do something very specific for your situation, and I may want to set up my controller and modules to behave in a different way that works for me.

The ideal controller, as I see it, would give us choices about how we like to do things. Then I could configure it the way that works for me, and you could configure it the way that works for you, and we could both be using the same controller, and both be happy.

Perhaps on one A50 patch, I might like the current position of all my sliders and pedals to get sent to the modules when I go to that patch. In another (A50) patch, I might not want that to happen. An ideal controller would give me those kinds of choices.

No controller that I know of offers that kind of control, including the A50. They all seem to be locked into one way of doing things. However for my purposes, the way the A50 does things is the right choice for me, most of the time, and I haven't been able to find another controller that works that way.

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No controller that I know of offers that kind of control, including the A50. They all seem to be locked into one way of doing things. However for my purposes, the way the A50 does things is the right choice for me, most of the time, and I haven't been able to find another controller that works that way.
Sorry guestuser - I'm not trying to make this a pissing contest. I am always interested in how others are using these kind of MIDI functions in their every day lives. You are right that no piece of equipment works for everyone the way they prefer. Can you give me an example where you set the sliders in one patch and when you move to another patch controlling different modules(OR KEYBOARDS), you want that module(s) to jump to the current slider values?

The fact is the MC3000 DOES let you configure either way. Each slider can be programmed for the controller parameter and its default value. This is done for each of 8 zones so a single slider can perform 8 different functions simutaneously if desired. The default value (which can also be turned off) is sent when that zone is turned on or when you switch to the patch containing the zone setting.

I owned an A-80 for 11 years so I can honestly compare the virtues of each. When I saw the MC3000 at the NAMM show I spent much time looking for features lacking or less then stellar in the A-80. I was blown away that this thing got past me for 2 years without realizing it was out there. The A-80 has poly aftertouch(unhhh --Oww) and looks a lot more professional then the MC3000 but for functionality its no contest. The ugly one wins here.

Whats that high pitched whining noise

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Quote:
Originally posted by Markyboard:
Sorry guestuser - I'm not trying to make this a pissing contest. I am always interested in how others are using these kind of MIDI functions in their every day lives. You are right that no piece of equipment works for everyone the way they prefer. Can you give me an example where you set the sliders in one patch and when you move to another patch controlling different modules(OR KEYBOARDS), you want that module(s) to jump to the current slider values?
Sure. For me, the most common example is volume. I use one of my foot pedals to control master volume (CC7) on all my modules (I gig with 3 modules). Every time I change an A50 patch, the current position of my master volume pedal gets sent to all three modules (or whichever ones happen to be used in that setup). That way, I know that the volume I'm going to get is the position of that pedal. Why is this good? It means my master volume pedal is 'live' all the time, so I don't get any unexpected volume jumps or dropouts when I change patches.

If I were to send a preset volume instead, let's say 127 for example, and my master volume pedal is at 25%, not only am I going to get a full-volume patch, which I don't want, but the other problem is that as soon as I move the pedal I'm going to get sudden jumps of volume as the module changes to the value of the pedal.

I use three pedals altogether. The second one is devoted to secondary volume (CC11, so-called Expression). I use this for perhaps a string patch that I might want to fade in, or a lead sound on the right-hand side of the keyboard. I want the current, real-time value of that pedal sent out, most of the time.

The third pedal usually controls modulation (CC1). Ideally, I would prefer a preset value of 0 to be sent for this controller.

Sometimes I would like the realtime value of a controller to be sent (the volume examples), and sometimes I'd rather have a preset value sent (modulation), but if I have to choose only one method, I prefer the A50's 'realtime' method, most of the time.

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The fact is the MC3000 DOES let you configure either way. Each slider can be programmed for the controller parameter and its default value. This is done for each of 8 zones so a single slider can perform 8 different functions simutaneously if desired. The default value (which can also be turned off) is sent when that zone is turned on or when you switch to the patch containing the zone setting.
If I understand you correctly, I don't think that's the same thing as what I'm talking about. It sounds like you're saying the MC3000 can send a preset value to a module, or not. What I'm talking about is not sending a preset value, it's sending the current value of a particular controller. See the volume example above. To me, that kind of realtime control is what I'm looking for, most of the time, and it's this feature that I am unable to find on any other controller besides the A50 (A80).

My ideal controller would let me send out either A) nothing B) a preset value or C) the current value of a controller. It would also give me a choice of what's going to happen when I move the controller, which might have a different current value than what was just sent. I should be able to select A) the controller immediately sends out its current value as soon as I move it or B) it doesn't send out a value until it crosses the value that was just sent.

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Sure. For me, the most common example is volume. I use one of my foot pedals to control master volume (CC7) on all my modules (I gig with 3 modules). Every time I change an A50 patch, the current position of my master volume pedal gets sent to all three modules (or whichever ones happen to be used in that setup). That way, I know that the volume I'm going to get is the position of that pedal. Why is this good? It means my master volume pedal is 'live' all the time, so I don't get any unexpected volume jumps or dropouts when I change patches.
Thanks - this is a valid argument - I think. I'm not sure how you prevent a volume jump in either case. In the A-80 case you get the volume jump when you change the patch. You say you know the volume you're going to get based on the position of the pedal. If the pedal is at 63.7 % of its total throw and you switch from a heavy plastic guitar sound(copyright) in module x to a flute sound( not copyright) in module y, do you really know what volume you're going to get before playing the first note(s) with module Y? In the MC3000 by presetting the default volume for module y you can expect to be close to the needed volume. Now as you stated if you do want to increase or decrease the volume with the pedal after switching patches you will get a jump. This to me is the preferable time to get the jump and if I did have the flexibility to choose (and I do as you will see) I would still operate this way. Now I could nudge the controller/pedal before playing to get the same result as sending out the current value after switching patches However this is less then ideal. I do understand your desire for the flexibility to choose the mode of operation (ie send/dont send contoller on patch change, pass thru vs instant actual value).

I'm experimenting on the MC3000 as I'm writing this (thanks for keeping me busy on another snow day).
Every thing I mentioned so far is how things operate if switching patches. On the MC3000, if you stay on one patch and use the zone buttons to operate which module is being controlled (perfect for stage use), then the actual value of the pedals/sliders etc are sent when you turn on the zone ala A-80. Unless again a preset value is programmed for that controller. So in this mode you really do get both.

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Quote:
Originally posted by paostby:
Is this hum a low pitch (like 60Hz) or a high pitch squeal?

I am assuming "hum" describes the 60Hz power noise. Or 50Hz for England.

Electricity does not produce noise. A transducer does. I have a device that hummed, also. The main power transformer was mounted loosely and vibrated, producing the noise. I wondered wht it was louder when the display lights were on. Well, lights draw more electricity which makes a stronger electro-magnetic field in the power transformer. A stronger field rocked the thing harder!

I tightened down the transformer and put a shim of high impact plastic under a corner that wouldn't tighten down. No further hum.

Just a thought.
Thanks for this idea - I'm going to try opening it up and seeing if there's anything I can do along these lines.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Markyboard:
Thanks - this is a valid argument - I think. I'm not sure how you prevent a volume jump in either case. In the A-80 case you get the volume jump when you change the patch. You say you know the volume you're going to get based on the position of the pedal. If the pedal is at 63.7 % of its total throw and you switch from a heavy plastic guitar sound(copyright) in module x to a flute sound( not copyright) in module y, do you really know what volume you're going to get before playing the first note(s) with module Y?
This is something outside the scope of midi volume. However, I know which patches are louder than others. I still prefer to compensate with my pedal, and prefer to know that the volume pedal is always 'live'.

However, there might be instances where I would want a preset volume instead. That's why I think an ideal controller should give a choice about how you want to do things, as I explained earlier. No such controller exists, as far as I know.

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Every thing I mentioned so far is how things operate if switching patches. On the MC3000, if you stay on one patch and use the zone buttons to operate which module is being controlled (perfect for stage use), then the actual value of the pedals/sliders etc are sent when you turn on the zone ala A-80. Unless again a preset value is programmed for that controller. So in this mode you really do get both.
Are you sure that's how it's working? I don't have access to the MC3000 manual, but from what I've read (a review), and from what you've said so far, it sounds like what is happening is that when you press one of those zone buttons, the MC3000 is either sending a preset controller value, or nothing at all, rather than the current value of a controller. If it were able to do that, why would it do it when you press a zone button, and not when changing patches?

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Quote:
Are you sure that's how it's working? I don't have access to the MC3000 manual, but from what I've read (a review), and from what you've said so far, it sounds like what is happening is that when you press one of those zone buttons, the MC3000 is either sending a preset controller value, or nothing at all, rather than the current value of a controller. If it were able to do that, why would it do it when you press a zone button, and not when changing patches?
Ok so now you really got me thinking - why is it doing this? Well it ends up the MC3000 is not sending the actual controller value when the zone is enabled. Rather when the controller is moved, all zones for which that controller is programmed and that are ON or in BYPASS mode are active and transmitting the controller value to the modules set for those zones(Only the notes are turned off in BYPASS mod). This is effectively the same as the "live" controller behavior of the A-80( I think - you already proved me wrong at least once today). If the zone is OFF then the controller will not go to that module. Again my preference is to only affect the module being played. So I would opt to set default values sent when the zone is turned ON or turn those zones OFF that are not being played.
Back to my original point. There is an awful lot of flexibility with this controller. It does not do everything ( as we all would like) but it by far has more flexibility then the A-80. BTW the built in MIDI monitor was real nice for figuring this all out. I have 4 outputs of the the MC3000 tied into a Unitor 8/AMT8 pair as well. But all my switching/controlling is done at the MC3000.

Good discussion - thanks

On another topic, I looked into that buzz on the A80 a while back and it is the display , not the power supply as some are suggesting.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Markyboard:
Ok so now you really got me thinking - why is it doing this? Well it ends up the MC3000 is not sending the actual controller value when the zone is enabled. Rather when the controller is moved, all zones for which that controller is programmed and that are ON or in BYPASS mode are active and transmitting the controller value to the modules set for those zones(Only the notes are turned off in BYPASS mod). This is effectively the same as the "live" controller behavior of the A-80.
Well, not really. The thing that the A50/A80 does that no other controller does is send out the current value of a controller *before you move that controller*. When I say 'live', what I mean is that after I change an A50 patch, the value of any assigned controller in the module matches the physical position of the controller on the A50. Therefore it is 'live', i.e., ready to go, no nudging required to bring it into position.

This may not be important to you, in fact I guess it's not because you're happy with your MC3000, and it sounds like the MC3000 is very good and flexible in other ways, and that's great.

But for me, that is one of the things that my A50 does that I really like, and I'm not inclined to switch to another controller unless it also has that feature.

Quote:
On another topic, I looked into that buzz on the A80 a while back and it is the display , not the power supply as some are suggesting.
You could be right, if I put my ear close, it does seem a little louder right over the display.

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Egads! You are right again. You sound very knowledgeable about the intricacies of MIDI. As I'm sitting here looking at the blank display on my MC3000 ( I haven't powered up yet this morning), I'm thinking if I move some sliders around and stomp on my foot controllers, none of this will affect my modules once I do power up. In other words, patches as I last programmed/set them on my modules will sound the same as I left them. Unless the patch that comes up on the controller is programmed with default settings. Cool! Which reminds me the MC3000 patch that comes up on power up is programmable including an option for the last patch selected. Sweet. Which also reminds me of the nightmare in selecting patches from the A-80. If you want to select patch 95 or 22 or anything other then 1-8 on module y, what octal base group/patch# (offset by 1) do you have to push(Roland gear only uses digits 1 - 8) on the A-80 and how many button pushes does it take? Ok that was a low blow. To each his own. Im done trying to sell you on the MC3000.

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Originally posted by Markyboard:
Egads! You are right again. You sound very knowledgeable about the intricacies of MIDI. As I'm sitting here looking at the blank display on my MC3000 ( I haven't powered up yet this morning), I'm thinking if I move some sliders around and stomp on my foot controllers, none of this will affect my modules once I do power up. In other words, patches as I last programmed/set them on my modules will sound the same as I left them. Unless the patch that comes up on the controller is programmed with default settings. Cool! Which reminds me the MC3000 patch that comes up on power up is programmable including an option for the last patch selected. Sweet. Which also reminds me of the nightmare in selecting patches from the A-80. If you want to select patch 95 or 22 or anything other then 1-8 on module y, what octal base group/patch# (offset by 1) do you have to push(Roland gear only uses digits 1 - 8) on the A-80 and how many button pushes does it take? Ok that was a low blow. To each his own. Im done trying to sell you on the MC3000.
Good! I don't understand why you were trying to sell me so hard on it in the first place. Despite your assertion to the contrary, you do seem to be trying to turn this into a pissing contest, which really baffles me - why would you care if I'm happy with my A50?

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Sorry - no offense intended. Since I owned both and know them both intimately ...well I get carried away some times. What else to you own? \:D

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On another topic, I looked into that buzz on the A80 a while back and it is the display , not the power supply as some are suggesting.[/QB]
Yes, to further clarify, something is acting as a transducer. I would look for something that is vibrating (possibly a transformer). I would have this buzzing/hum activated and start pushing down on some parts (display, pc boards, inductors, etc) in the hopes that something would change or eliminate the hum. Using a pencil eraser is a good tool. There shouldn't be any high voltage to worry about, but the eraser should keep you out of the ER.

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Originally posted by Markyboard:
Sorry - no offense intended. Since I owned both and know them both intimately ...well I get carried away some times. \:D
Um, well, since you're so intimate with them, how come I had to explain to you how they both worked?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist! \:D

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My D70 used to hum too. Same era and same display.


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Um, well, since you're so intimate with them, how come I had to explain to you how they both worked?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist!
You're all right Guestuser. Smartass ... like myself. Untill next thread...signing off.


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