Compact Diss Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 I have to say it's a humbling experience . I have a lot to learn. I really wasn't into how it was so organized . I felt it took away from the spontaniety that original Blues are about . Overall, I had a good time.I will go back, also it gives me a new inspirational look at my own methods and practice. I need to do more!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Note Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Compact Diss, If this was your first Blues Jam I thought this might be of some help in future jams. I feel for a blues jam (or I guess any jam but since I'm most familliar with Blues jams) you must be willing to be two types of players. If you have another guitarist with you who can solo well be willing to play countless measures of rhytyhm giving the other guy the freedom to explore and learn new licks, even if you don't have another guitarist give the bass, keyboard, or any other type player plenty of room to solo and finish his story. I have always found it hard to find other people willing to do this even though I did it for them. I think this is important to learning to be a good band member especially in live performances. I need to restate when your playing the rhythm keep the same progression going until the one soloist is ready then you can change to something new. That is another problem I have had with other musicians even if they would play rhythm they would always change it around during my solo turn and what I had in my head would not work with the new progression. This is very frustrating when you don't get to get out what you wanted to say. Good Luck in finding musicians that will work with you and help you learn!! When in doubt, BEND IT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stray Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 lol congrats on the first jam... i know the humbling experience feeling all too well. funny how you can go up on stage feeling cool and leave feeling 1 ft tall. i think if you didnt trainwreck or end up looking bad you did well. lol i remeber my first blues jam about 16 yrs ago.. i was some lil metalhead kid who thought it was all about speed and tech. so i got up on stage with these awesome musicians (i was a guit player , while they were real musicians) and they could seemlessly jump from blues, to funk to jazz back to blues easily. they kept calling me to solo.. lol. shred solo. ok sounded like crap on blues. err what do i do sweeeeeeeeeepppppppp ok that was worse. so much for blues being easy... most humbling experience of my musical life. oddly right about then is when i stopped playing shred type stuff. southern rock lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compact Diss Posted February 7, 2003 Author Share Posted February 7, 2003 Sorry--I didn't participate-I just went and watched the show. I hear what you're saying about time for soloing. I watched it happen last night, a younger kid went crazy and really didn't give the other guitar player any room to present himself. I felt bad for the older guy-but when he did his small solo it sounded better than the young kid anyway. It was a good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Blues is great, because it's one of the few music forms that lends itself easily to open jams. On both sides of the jam, there are some cool rules of etiquette... Jammer guests...sign up early for your turn, be in tune, be patient, listen to what others are doing, and don't hog the solos. If you're really not ready to participate, don't bog the show down. Go home and practice until you are ready. Leave any "I'm a star" attitudes at the door. That little ol' gray haired guy who looks like the village idiot might just kick your ass. Hosts...If it's billed as an "open jam", that means everyone who signs up should get a chance. Don't just call your friends up. It sucks to be a new player in town and denied a chance to get up there and strut your stuff a little, in order to get to know the locals a bit...just because the host doesn't know you as an established player on the local scene. If someone sucks, be polite, and say "next", but give 'em a turn. That's what "open jam" means. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george costanza Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Shame you didn't (as Frank Zappa once put it through the mouth-piece of Lowell George) "get any onya". I can understand your reticence but remember, as long as you don't pretend to more than you might do (that is, play simple rhythm parts til you are more skilled----& sometimes even then!), honest players shouldn't expect more or resent your participation. They started at the same place as you; though some may forget that or pretend otherwise (there will always be some jerks), you gotta get in the pool to swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbrock1san.rr.com Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 Originally posted by Tedster: That little ol' gray haired guy who looks like the village idiot might just kick your ass.I aspire to be that guy someday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compact Diss Posted February 8, 2003 Author Share Posted February 8, 2003 Tedster you're right on the money again. My brother in law signed up as soon as we walked in the door. He's a drummer and he is good at freestyling but is shady when it comes to being with a band. The guy who was running things came over to our table and asked if we had been there before and so on. We felt like we were the new guys in town and you have to go outside and have a gunfight or whatever. Anyway my bro-in-law opted out before we were questioned, said he wanted a few more weeks to practice but the host was really out of line. We felt exactly what you said, it was supposed to be an "open jam" and obviously the way we were treated it really isn't. They are lucky I didn't get up there with my Strat! (only kidding, I would have cleared the place out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael saulnier Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 There are some blues jams advertised in my town, but I've never been. Diss, you said you were concerned they were so organized, what did you mean? Did they have "songlists"? Were there several people who went up together? Was there a "house" band or rhythm section? Are there "standards" that are always played? Was it a "ripping" contest atmosphere? Besides a guitar did people bring amps, pedals, stands and so on? Who, if anyone, sang? How did everyone know what "key" the songs were in... shout it out... "E"!... one, two, three... I guess from your posts that there's a group of "regulars" who monopolize the night... is that right? Thanks in advance for your comments. I'm still "guitplayer"! Check out my music if you like... http://www.michaelsaulnier.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted February 8, 2003 Share Posted February 8, 2003 Originally posted by Compact Diss: Tedster you're right on the money again. My brother in law signed up as soon as we walked in the door. He's a drummer and he is good at freestyling but is shady when it comes to being with a band. The guy who was running things came over to our table and asked if we had been there before and so on. We felt like we were the new guys in town and you have to go outside and have a gunfight or whatever. Anyway my bro-in-law opted out before we were questioned, said he wanted a few more weeks to practice but the host was really out of line. We felt exactly what you said, it was supposed to be an "open jam" and obviously the way we were treated it really isn't. They are lucky I didn't get up there with my Strat! (only kidding, I would have cleared the place out) It's always good for new jammers to scope a place out before they sign up, to get an idea of what the base level of playing is...and then practice until they can meet or exceed that level. I feel personally that I can hang with just about any of the blues players here...of course some will smoke me, some won't...(that's not what it's about)...but, there's a jazz jam over at Mutual Musicians' Foundation after hours Saturday nights. I can tell you right now that there is absolutely no way I'd go there and expect to sit in, until I was thoroughly familiar with what is going on, and probably not even then. So, it is good to see in advance what you're getting into, and if you don't feel you can hang...wait. It will happen. That said...I think jamming is a phenominal chops builder...especially in areas of timing, phrasing, dynamics, interaction...well, all of it, really. So, your brother in law is a drummer? What are you guys waiting for? Sounds like you can help each other out, and have loads of fun in the process! "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compact Diss Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 Diss, you said you were concerned they were so organized, what did you mean? Did they have "songlists"? Were there several people who went up together? Was there a "house" band or rhythm section? Are there "standards" that are always played? Was it a "ripping" contest atmosphere? Besides a guitar did people bring amps, pedals, stands and so on? Who, if anyone, sang? How did everyone know what "key" the songs were in... shout it out... "E"!... one, two, three... I guess from your posts that there's a group of "regulars" who monopolize the night... is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compact Diss Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 I meant I visusalized a Blues jam as a bunch of people just jumping up and playing. My first time there so it seemed like these guys had played together before and they must have been regulars. Songlists? I feel like they did because there was not much discussion between songs, keys? No clue how they worked that out. Yes everyone seemed to bring their own amp and instruments plus add ons. The singers were good. The average age of the players were between 40-50, a couple of under 30's-which makes me feel good --I'll never be too old to be a guitarist!--The guitar is truly a lifelong friend. I am going to another one tonight at a different venue-this one starts early at 5:30-so I think it will be a different crowd. I'm just excited to go watch and listen to some good music--I'll give you the details tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 It would be a horrible cacaphony if everyone just got up and played. You know what big music stores or guitar shows sound like? One kid playing "Enter Sandman", another "Come As You Are", some old jazz guy playing "Wave", a shredder playing "Eruption", someone who's been playing maybe a couple of months trying out a guitar...all at the same time! So, in a normal blues jam situation, you'll have a host band who's in charge. They'll call players up, one or maybe two at a time, based upon a) a sign up list...and b) who they know. The folks they know will get called up first, generally. It's up to the moderator as to who gets called up when. A good moderator will keep things moving, but, when you've got to pass things around for solos, the tunes can get long. A good host in turn will also signal when to trade off solos...and he shouldn't let one guy solo for five minutes, unless that guy is blowing the roof off the place (which very very rarely happens, even with phenomenal players). Even then, once or twice through the progression, say 12-24 bars, is a good length. Meantime, I'd be jamming with my buddies, working on chops and licks. When you feel ready, sign up. Have fun! "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 I really feel like I wanna do this, but I'm definately intimidated. It's been my plan to just go without my guitar, or maybe leaving in the car, and just checking it out. There are a variety of places in the Philly area, most in local cover clubs on a weekday, but there are a couple at hard core blues places. Just thinking about those hard core places make me flutter, but that's where I want to go. I feel like I should work my way up to those places though. For me, playing out is about comfort level. In the past, stage fright has really been a limiting factor in my performance level, it's not easy to play when your hands are shaking. That, coupled with the fact that I've only ever played bass in a live situation makes me worry. I have really worked on my playing in the past couple of years(On guitar) and feel a lot more comfortable and confident noe than ever before, so I feel like I'm ready. I can feel it when I play in front of small groups of people, it just feels more natural. In front of other musicians, It can be hit or miss, though. Sometimes, I can be really smooth, then I get self concious and lock up. Well, I guess more praticing is in order. I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compact Diss Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 well I hit my second Blues jam tonight and had a great time. This place (Johnny D's) was more of a relaxed atmosphere-one woman even played the flute up there. No one had any condescending attitudes, everyone up there seemed to be just having a good time. Solos were kept at a minimum and they rotated from the guitarists to the keys back to the guitars-no jams were perfect and none sounded rehearsed. The place I was at on Thursday sounded as if everything was pre-planned. This was what I was looking for. In time...in a long time I will also be up there--I'm too young in the game to even contemplate it right now but it's a long term goal I'll most definitely meet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I LOVE the blues jams! I Did them every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday in Louisiana. There's a place in Shreveport, LA called "Tommy's House of Blues". The original owner is dead now and I've heard it's changed a lot since 97 when I left, but it was a ball. I got to play with some of the best blues players you've NEVER heard and some you have. Anyone ever heard of Joe Nadeau? He's the guitar player for Kenny Wayne Shepherd. Actually, Tommy's House of Blues is supposedly where Kenny was discovered. I like the setup they had. The sign-up list asked what type of act you were. Like, solo guitar player, or 3 piece band, or whatever. The host always has a host band to start it off, then they look at the list and pick maybe a single guitarist and a single harmonica player or something and slowly rotate players this way. If there were bands in the house, they would be allowed to play 2 or three tunes, depending on how many people were signed up to play. It was a blast and I learned a lot from the REAL blues players of Louisiana. I'm looking to get out to a few open mics around here. Where's that place you mentioned, Compact Diss? Maybe I'll pop in there some time and have a few Bloody Marys. RockNRev "Are You Listening?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compact Diss Posted February 10, 2003 Author Share Posted February 10, 2003 It's Johnny D's in Somerville--go to this site-it's the Boston Blues site and they list all of the Bues Jams in the area and NH. www.bostonblues.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat0124 Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Just an observation.....are the guys who go to open mikes the same ones who play at music stores for hours on end showing every lick they possess....or aspire to possess???? Nothing against them, I just found them to be a bunch of rock guys trying to play blues....a la Stevie Ray. One word of advice though, bring something to the table nobody else has, like harp, slide, bass....you might get to play all night. Theres an electric bluesman behind every tree, but a true acoustic bluesman is rare. My blues education came from the area I was born and raised (Texas, Mississippi, and Louisiana), and I tend to be overly critical, not acutely or hurtfully, but I know the real deal when I (see) hear it. Just take them for what they are, and not expect much, then you might find your experience to be a bit more fun. And thats the whole reason for going in the first place! Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 I remember my first Blues jam. I was 18 and thought I was the shit 'cause I could play the hell out of a pentatonic scale. I'll never forget the host's question "Don't you know any chords?". That was 21 years ago and I have attended and hosted hundreds of Blues jams since. Being able to play for the song is key. Jamming is all about improvisation or "spontaneous composition". You need to hear and feel the song - not just your part. Play what you're capable of and be humble because Tedster's right - you never can judge players by their appearance. In my experience, it's always the players who work really hard to look like players that end up looking like fools. It's that quiet old guy in the corner that'll blow you away every time. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Sylver (and Diss, when you're ready), Stage Fright comes in all shapes. I remember I used to get so nervous when I'm about to take tests in college. Then someone said something like: "The test is the easy part. The studying is the hard part. When you take the test, all you can do is what you did when you were studying for it." Now, I'm not sure it's totally correct, but it did get rid of my nervousness before tests - although I started getting nervous when I was studying! I use the same thing with playing music live. Practicing is the key. When I practice with my band, I picture us in front of the audience. Also, unless we're working on new songs, we also practice as if we're playing for a live audience. This means if someone messes up, we keep playing and recover as best as we can - as we would on a live show. I mean, we wouldn't stop in the middle of a song during a live show and start over because someone messed up. This doesn't mean we play perfectly though on live shows. I don't think we've ever played a perfect gig. But it has made us better at recovering and the audience don't really realize anything was wrong. Another thing that helps me is, the more you play live, the more you get used to it so you are less nervous. My bands never played that frequently, maybe 5 a year, but it's still enough that now, I don't get too nervous before playing. I used to have a drink before I would go on, but now, no longer. aka riffing Double Post music: Strip Down http://rimspeed.com http://loadedtheband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curly Dan Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 OK, everybody , blues in A a 1, 2 , 3, 4... "music heals" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 (Sings in gravelly voice): "Well I woke up this mo'nin'..." Ba dadada BUMP... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 the first time i went to a jamm...awww i had the best of luck it was about 1 year ago....there where so many wierd things going on it was great..there was even a bag pipe player...it was tall daves damn jam and i was nervious, but a drunk guy got up on stage and fixed that so i went up and played it was magic. the first tiem i had played along side skilled musicans. i came in the middle of a song cuss it was the last soung and i had been bettin around the bush all nigth deciding wether or not to play and i got in found the key and got my grove on i solo'ed for like a munite then stoped and the host gave me a look like i had done somtihng wroung then the keyboardest turned towarrds me and said keep going man and he joined in he where harmonizing and kickin it it was sweet i never thought i was any good at guitar ..but dave boosted my ego and convinced me to come back i still havnt cuss i dont live anywhere near there but iv never seen a more freindly jam enirornmet and dave rogers new me from the countless hours of playing at his store..thats what first jamms are about.. magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylver Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Originally posted by Rim: Sylver (and Diss, when you're ready), Stage Fright comes in all shapes. I remember I used to get so nervous when I'm about to take tests in college. Then someone said something like: "The test is the easy part. The studying is the hard part. When you take the test, all you can do is what you did when you were studying for it." Now, I'm not sure it's totally correct, but it did get rid of my nervousness before tests - although I started getting nervous when I was studying! I use the same thing with playing music live. Practicing is the key. When I practice with my band, I picture us in front of the audience. Also, unless we're working on new songs, we also practice as if we're playing for a live audience. This means if someone messes up, we keep playing and recover as best as we can - as we would on a live show. I mean, we wouldn't stop in the middle of a song during a live show and start over because someone messed up. This doesn't mean we play perfectly though on live shows. I don't think we've ever played a perfect gig. But it has made us better at recovering and the audience don't really realize anything was wrong. Another thing that helps me is, the more you play live, the more you get used to it so you are less nervous. My bands never played that frequently, maybe 5 a year, but it's still enough that now, I don't get too nervous before playing. I used to have a drink before I would go on, but now, no longer.You make great points, and I've intellectualized on the subject for years. I mean, I played steady in cover bands for years, but was never able to overcome that stage fright. Thing is, and I see this so clearly now, I skated and never applied myself. I always found a place in bands because I was a) a bass player, and b) a songwriter, even attended music school, so I have chops, but you hit the nail on the head. I never spent as much time practicing as I should have. Now that I'm older and my time is limited by the wife, kids, and non-music job, I get a fire under my ass. Sheesh! Like I said, I don't think I'll have the same stage fright as I did when I was younger, especially in a blues jam situation. I don't want to go to show off, I just want to PLAY. To be inspired, to learn by watching and playing with others who are interested in this artform. It still makes me nervous as hell, but I will do it someday soon, and I feel like once I step onto that stage, and someone calls out, "Shuffle in E!" that everything else will dissolve and the music will just come. I really don't know what to put here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curly Dan Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I was lucky. I played in bands with my best friend from 8th grade thru high school. We developed interplay over the years, and that was cool, 'cause I saw too many musicians who never got over the competitive thing long enough to learn what real musicianship is. The fact is, though, most musicians are cool, big-hearted people. When I heard the blues, that was IT for me. Even though some think the blues is simple, even boring, the blues done right is a great vehicle for the soul feeling in music. "music heals" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Jams are awesome. IMO, there's no better way to build up chops. Find a place where the host is friendly. Tell him you are green -- it's not like he won't figure it out anyway! We've all been there, whether we remember it or not. Around my town, there are jams which are sort of run like "invitationals", and they tend to be more structured and polished. Don't try to start playing at those kind of jams. Look for the true "open" jam. You can usually tell those because the last hour before closing is total amateur night. That's a good time to take your first crack at it. Be kind to the host. Remember that he's got a tough job. He's getting paid peanuts, and he's got to supply gear and musicians for the night. He has to keep enough of a decent show going to keep a crowd around buying drinks. And every night there's at least two jerkoffs who try to take over the stage and solo for 20 minutes. So he develops a gruff demeanor, the better to blow those dudes off. It ain't personal. You can learn more in a three-song jam set than 20 lessons. Get out there, and have some fun! I just got home from a local jam. I hadn't been to while in a while. Had a blast, as usual. Of course, I play keys, and when there's no keyboard player in the host band, I usually end up playing all night. Which I did tonight. In fact, I should quit typing now, my hands are tired... --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 i spent 6 months going to a weekly NYC blues jam BEFORE i ever signed up to play. i just watched, enjoyed, and absorbed. some heavyweight folks used to play there (guys from Conan, Letterman, Miles Davis' band, Broadway pit bands, etc), so i thought it best to take my time before i jumped into the fire and made an idiot of myself . i'll just add the following things i learned to the tips already listed by others: 1) follow the singer/leader. always. 2) learn to follow chord hand signs. on songs that are not straight 12 bars, most leaders will call changes with their fingers. i.e. 1 finger is a I chord, 4 fingers is a IV chord, etc. this is so simple, yet invaluable. 3) get comfy with horn keys like Bb and Eb and F. fyi, the key of A really sucks for a horn player! 4) respect the host. i've seen newbies get all pissed off at a host because "that guy got to play before me and he didn't sign up." often times, at least in NYC, what the newbie didn't know was that the guy who didn't sign up is (insert famous recording star's guitar player's name here). those folks usually don't have to sign up. 5) have fun. and don't get pissed if you get up with players that are less than you would prefer to be. -d. gauss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Jew Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Yeah... I used to run open mic nights at two different clubs in Philly. These weren't "blues jam" nights per se, but the general rules of good conduct still applied: 1. Respect the host. I'm a nice guy, but I wouldn't tolerate egomaniacs or overly pushy people. I want everyone to have fun -- it's not all about YOU, douchebag. 2. Just wait your turn. If you signed up, you'll get your shot. 3. Don't overdo it. If you get to play three songs, don't choose three 20-minute jams. That kind of behavior disrespects the other musicians who also want a shot onstage. 4. BE NICE. This means you applaud for the the other artists (or at least don't BOO.) Anyone who gave me a lot of unnescessary crap about any of these things usually found themselves being removed from the premises bodily. \m/ Erik "To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." --Sun Tzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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